FMKK Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 I mean they're doing well and that's good for them but I find everything about them to be embarrassing and cringeworthy on every level And I don't think people should be afraid to say that. Part of what makes this board what it is is the willingness to analyse wrestling on a deeper level to lay out what you think does or doesn't work and that people aren't afraid to slay sacred cows or whatever. The Young Bucks certainly aren't for me but I also thing they're the sort of thing that I'd be embarrassed for a non-wrestling fan to see and god knows there's plenty of moments like that in WWE that people don't hesitate to slaughter. I think I might just hate OTT nerd fandoms in 2017 and to me they and their followers are the encapsulation of that in wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 I have enjoyed some of their matches, and respect the hell out of their hustle and finding ways to make money in an environment that is often not conductive to making money for talent. But for me, there are other teams from the past few years I'd rather ahead of them (Revival, Usos, DIY, The Bar, just to name a few) and I certainly would not put them on the level of all time great working and drawing tag teams like the Midnight Express, Rock 'n' Roll Express, etc. The 2019 (or 2022, depending on when Dave lists their debut) WON Hall of Fame ballot is going to be potentially the biggest bloodbath in the history of those awards (and think of the ground that covers) when they go on the ballot. The folks who think they should be in will be very vocal and loud in believing they should be in, and the folks who don't think they should be in will be very vocal and loud in believing they should not be in. We'll get a preview of that next year when Kenny Omega goes on the ballot but the real bloodbath will be the Bucks. I might have to stop following wrestling on the internet by that point for my own sanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 What is the spot that has gotten so much talk lately? I've seen all of this referring to "the spot" on Twitter ... what was it? https://twitter.com/briantheguppie/status/942054673451835392 You know, I feel like a competent camera crew and production team could have made that look better. That series is dumb and ridiculous but they used the worst possible angles as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Jeez, I just realized even Vince Russo chipped in on that clip. I guess that's the first time he and Cornette have come to agree on something. Crazy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmartMark15 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 What is the spot that has gotten so much talk lately? I've seen all of this referring to "the spot" on Twitter ... what was it? https://twitter.com/briantheguppie/status/942054673451835392 You know, I feel like a competent camera crew and production team could have made that look better. That series is dumb and ridiculous but they used the worst possible angles as well. I'm not a big fan of how modern ROH looks. All the overhead shots and crane shots actually makes the venue look smaller. The more intimate angles from the early days made the wrestlers feel larger than they were and it emphasized the sound of the crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 I have absolutely loved two Bucks matches Hardy Boys v. Young Bucks NEW 8/2/16 Super Dragon/Kevin Steen v. Young Bucks 12/10/11 I would argue that those two matches are as good as any Midnight Express match. Most of the time they aren't my thing, but their highs can be pretty high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 I actually think the Midnight Express are an interesting comparison (and I love both). Their highs are very high - when everything comes together, the Bucks can have some really excellent matches. Their offense keeps the floor relatively high for them - I'm generally not hating a Young Bucks match when I watch it (or almost any Midnight Express match, ever, and I've seen a lot). They certainly haven't hit that upper echelon of matches nearly as frequently as the Midnight Express, though. Maybe it's an issue of the right opponents, maybe they rely too much on the schtick, maybe it's that ROH booking leaves their matches frequently lacking in heat. I do also think there's a bit of a limit to their style that even they are starting to push up against. A lot of what makes their matches compelling is the intentional overuse of certain concepts - if one superkick is good, isn't 15 better? - but there's only so far that goes, especially when their matches are getting more exposure. Also - that two wrestlers have the top selling shirt in Hot Topic is nothing but a good thing for the business, no matter who that wrestler is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin' Brian Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 What is the spot that has gotten so much talk lately? I've seen all of this referring to "the spot" on Twitter ... what was it? https://twitter.com/briantheguppie/status/942054673451835392 I'm sorry, but IMO that's terrible. Sigh. Is that part of the gimmick now that they are trying to make everything look fake? It's like bad fight choreography in a low budget action movie. I feel old. Like actively wishing someone would get in there and stiff or stretch them all. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle, but it's better for my mental health if I stay away from things like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 I'm not sure "looks fake" and "embarrassing to non-fans" are terribly useful standards. If we're really being honest, much of the territory wrestling a lot of us love is just as goofy and fake-looking to a non-fan, if not more so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Hulk Hogan : it looked real and not at all embarrassing to non-fans... Really, people ? The post-modern shit can be unbearable if you're not into it, but for fuck's sake, the Rocket Launcher ? Stan Lane's karate kicks ? All the gaga in every southern tag-team match ever ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 I've gotten more traction from non-fans with stuff like a Mecha Mummy match, Kenny Omega wrestling the little girl or the Bucks superkicking the 8 year old than I do with a classic match. If they want realistic and for wins and losses to matter they'll watch the UFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 It's not about "Real." It's about allowing for the suspension of disbelief and utilizing the conventions of the genre to tell a story instead of just tearing them all apart for a cheap shortcut that over time renders them ultimately meaningless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 My question has always been why is it seemingly a horrible thing to some people that an act they don't particularly care for is over? I don't want to come across as yelling at Sean, but it seems like so goddamn many people take personal offense to the Young Bucks I'm wondering if they went around stealing people's lunches and kicking their dogs. Do I enjoy everything the Bucks do? No, it does get to be a bit excessive at times (okay, a lot of the time). But I'm also not going to swear off indy wrestling just because they are a popular act right now. tl;dr not everything will always be presented with you in mind. Let people enjoy things if they like them. Yes because this is totally a thing that is exclusive to The Young Bucks and in no way has anyone acted like this about Roman Reigns or John Cena. Well start a thread about Cena or Reigns and we can discuss them there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 I have absolutely loved two Bucks matches Hardy Boys v. Young Bucks NEW 8/2/16 Super Dragon/Kevin Steen v. Young Bucks 12/10/11 I would argue that those two matches are as good as any Midnight Express match. Most of the time they aren't my thing, but their highs can be pretty high Yeah, that Dragon/Steen one is just fucking epic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 I also think when you see them starting to lose a step and that merch money starts going down a bit they'll sign that WWE contract to get a final cash in before retiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmartMark15 Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 I have absolutely loved two Bucks matches Hardy Boys v. Young Bucks NEW 8/2/16 Super Dragon/Kevin Steen v. Young Bucks 12/10/11 I would argue that those two matches are as good as any Midnight Express match. Most of the time they aren't my thing, but their highs can be pretty high Yeah, that Dragon/Steen one is just fucking epic. Great build too for those who followed PWG. The Bucks were booked to be smarmy twerpy heels who kept going foe the company ace and this match was a glorious pay off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 How exactly do the Bucks tear apart the conventions of the genre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 Jeez, I just realized even Vince Russo chipped in on that clip. I guess that's the first time he and Cornette have come to agree on something. Crazy... This just in, two old carny fucks are trying to stay relevant. Film at eleven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 I also think when you see them starting to lose a step and that merch money starts going down a bit they'll sign that WWE contract to get a final cash in before retiring.I hope they do. That'd be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 What is the spot that has gotten so much talk lately? I've seen all of this referring to "the spot" on Twitter ... what was it? https://twitter.com/briantheguppie/status/942054673451835392 Thanks. I was expecting something worse. I mean, it's not my preferred form of wrestling, but Japanese indy sleaze feds have been doing stuff like this for a long time. I don't see how people like things like grocery store death matches, Minoru Suzuki vs MECHA Mummy, and Saitama Pro, but don't like this. It's not too far of a reach. Is it really that different than a criss-cross sequence where the babyface simply steps out of it and the heel runs without realizing the babyface is no longer there? Or the back-turned arm wringer spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 It looked to me like something that could have happened in Dragon Gate. They got pretty goofy with the multi-man spots. At this point in time I don't think it is possible to "ruin wrestling". The stuff you like is on DVD somewhere, so watch that and don't bitch real loud about what you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 That spot was the first time I'd ever seen the young bucks. I laughed. But I've never been a "wrestling is serious business!" guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 What is the spot that has gotten so much talk lately? I've seen all of this referring to "the spot" on Twitter ... what was it? https://twitter.com/briantheguppie/status/942054673451835392 Thanks. I was expecting something worse. I mean, it's not my preferred form of wrestling, but Japanese indy sleaze feds have been doing stuff like this for a long time. I don't see how people like things like grocery store death matches, Minoru Suzuki vs MECHA Mummy, and Saitama Pro, but don't like this. It's not too far of a reach. Is it really that different than a criss-cross sequence where the babyface simply steps out of it and the heel runs without realizing the babyface is no longer there? Or the back-turned arm wringer spot? Also, this was not some hot blood feud. It was a match built from their YouTube show where they continuously kick Flip Gordon’s ass and make him look like an idiot. It was just a match on the card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 The biggest problem I have with the dropkick spot is that it's lazy. I expect tighter and crazier things from the Bucks than a spot which has been pretty standard for junior/cruiser talent over the last 20 years, especially of it's causing a ruckus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superkix Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 Yeah, the fact that a shitty dropkick spot is causing Twitter drama is sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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