Is Vince McMahon done?

[MoS]

Following from the feedback that we have received in these discussions. This would easily be the biggest story to hit pro wrestling since news about the Gold Dust trio disbanding in the 1930s. So what do we think?

Personally, I think that even if he is gone, nothing will change materially. HHH and Stephanie are way too versed in WWE philosophy. I think it will be worse, actually, with many pretenders trying to stake a claim to his throne. Nevertheless, this is definitely the biggest story in our circles since Vince himself decided to launch Wrestlemania, nearly 40 years ago. I mean, are Hunter and Steph really that different? 

[El-P]

This thread should be like the infamous "Is Teddy Hart in Jail ?" Twitter account, with a daily answer.

No.

As far as things changing, it depends on so many factors. It can go so many ways. There's the inertia of that huge-ass company that is WWE and a corporate culture that has been established (by Stephanie, among others) for like 20 years now. There is gonna be power struggles for a while, which may disorganize things quite a bit. There is gonna be different approaches clashing and most probably Vinnie in the shadows with puppet strings (never forget that Stephy was supposed to "take time away to spend it with the family" just a few weeks back and that Trip is a guy with serious heart issues which doesn't go along well a super stressful job). There is gonna be that "Do we sell" issue probably thrown around. In the mids of this, Vince not being around will make some people's jobs so much easier and less stressful. One thing is for sure, this is gonna be a super fascinating period as far as backstage politics go. It could go pretty much every way, including becoming a complete car crash or becoming a much better pro-wrestling promotion.

[Al]

Vince is still the owner, still has majority voting share in the company. So even if he’s not involved in day-to-day operations, people lose sight that this is still his company.

[kevinmcfl]

37 minutes ago, El-P said:

This thread should be like the infamous "Is Teddy Hart in Jail ?" Twitter account, with a daily answer.

No.

As far as things changing, it depends on so many factors. It can go so many ways. There's the inertia of that huge-ass company that is WWE and a corporate culture that has been established (by Stephanie, among others) for like 20 years now. There is gonna be power struggles for a while, which may disorganize things quite a bit. There is gonna be different approaches clashing and most probably Vinnie in the shadows with puppet strings (never forget that Stephy was supposed to "take time away to spend it with the family" just a few weeks back and that Trip is a guy with serious heart issues which doesn't go along well a super stressful job). There is gonna be that "Do we sell" issue probably thrown around. In the mids of this, Vince not being around will make some people's jobs so much easier and less stressful. One thing is for sure, this is gonna be a super fascinating period as far as backstage politics go. It could go pretty much every way, including becoming a complete car crash or becoming a much better pro-wrestling promotion.

Rooting for the car crash.  WWE has ruined pro wrestling in my opinion.  Vince has never played fair and he deserves to see a horrible ending.  What he has done to people in the WWE and all around the wrestling world he deserves to see this all go up in flames.  Maybe today is the beginning of his "Black Saturday."
 

[Dav'oh]

Oh, there's a triumphant return coming, in-ring if nowhere else. That's Vince's endgame - ride this out, do his corporate penance, and Lazarus rises again before an audience in raptures. 

And release VKM Yoga in the meantime.

[NintendoLogic]

Keep in mind that a lot of folks on Wall Street think Vince is the only person capable of running a wrestling company. Even if he intends to continue running things behind the scenes, the fact that he would risk damaging the share price with the perception of being out speaks volumes. Also, Real Sports is working on a story on the allegations. They're not going to waste their time simply regurgitating what's already out there, especially for a story on an industry most legitimate media consider beneath them. Don't be surprised if the floodgates open.

[JerryvonKramer]

I listened to the Meltzer on this and Dave seems to think Vince has been trying to sell the company for years.

 

They noted that Smackdown already had many signs that his iron-tight grip on the commentary and scripting is already gone. Dave noted Vince quirks like not using the word "belt" as an example.

 

I must say if Vince is truly done here, he's surprised many of us, because I thought he'd have to die before giving up control, but this does seem to be it.

 

The difference between the other times and now isn't the scandal -- pretty much neither here nor there -- it's the fact that he has genuine rivals for control in the business as well as managerial oversight which comes with being publicly listed.

 

There are a few parallels with the last days of Henry Ford.

[JerryvonKramer]

On a side note, Dave was particularly unhappy with this tweet from Flair, not for giving thanks to Vince, but because of the implied disrespect to all the dozens of promotors who had belief in Flair including Jim Crockett Jr -- especially surprising as Flair is doing his last match deal under a JCP banner next week.

 

I think Flair has never gotten over late WCW stuff or the botched JCP expansion to the extent that it has coloured his perceptions of what happened before then. Anyway, it's a strange note on this story -- Dave seemed pretty unhappy that Flair would bury so many of the old promoters like that.

[El-P]

The irony of Flair getting a last "moment of glory" after basically getting "cancelled" (I mean, everybody expected him in AEW when Dark Side hit) for sexual harassment one week after Vince retires covered in shame (I mean, he should) for sexual harassment is pretty amazing. Flair thanking Vince is like "From one to another".... 

[Ricky Jackson]

Flair really needs to call it a day on the public life. I get irrationally angry every time I see one of his dumbass Every Word Has To Be Capitalized tweets. The guy is a joke

[sek69]

Bryan made a good point that in a situation where Vince didn't resign due to sexual allegations, having a guy with 40 years of experience promotion wrestling available as a consultant type role would be a good thing.  However if whatever is coming down the road is bad enough to have the guy everyone expected would be doing this until he died actually step down, I don't see how he can come back unless there's a complete exoneration of all the charges. 

[strobogo]

I think he's done, because there's no way he announces his retirement with the intention of coming back when the heat dies down due to investor fears of what happens without Vince guiding everything. I'm sure he will still have some input, particularly with business stuff. Obviously something serious has come up if he retires with a tweet a couple of hours before Smackdown after weeks of going out of his way to put himself back on TV in response to the allegations. 

[PeteF3]

I'm watching and waiting for what happens to Kevin Dunn. If he goes, or "retires" himself, then I'll believe that Vince is really gone.

How much of the change in Smackdown verbiage is due to Vince's declining involvement and how much of it is just McAfee being McAfee? He's a fanboy, but he's never been a guy to give much of a fuck about WWE Newspeak. 

[sek69]

Pat's been allowed to break a lot of the weird verbiage rules since Vince loves him and is a mark for having a celebrity on his announce team, but there's been several times where Pat would say something and then be quiet for a while since Vince was in his headset. 

As for Dunn, it probably will come down to who ends up controlling creative. He'll be safe as long as Bruce is around, but Bruce's main talent was coming up with things Vince would enjoy so that makes him a third wheel now. 

[ohtani's jacket]

If Vince had been younger, I'm sure he would have fought this harder. 

[sek69]

Maybe, but Old Man Vince was going around backstage 2 weeks ago saying FUCK EM, so clearly someone (Fox? USA? the Board of Directors?) stepped forward to tell him it was time to go. It's going to be something when the full details come out. 

[Embrodak]

As long as Dunn and Prichard are in charge of creative, I can’t imagine that Vince is *done* done, unless there’s a plan in place to phase in a new creative team over the course of a year or so. You can’t micromanage at home, but you can send texts and emails.

[SirEdger]

17 hours ago, PeteF3 said:

I'm watching and waiting for what happens to Kevin Dunn. If he goes, or "retires" himself, then I'll believe that Vince is really gone.

How much of the change in Smackdown verbiage is due to Vince's declining involvement and how much of it is just McAfee being McAfee? He's a fanboy, but he's never been a guy to give much of a fuck about WWE Newspeak. 

Vince would've never allowed Xavier Woods to outright pronounce the names of Ring of Honor and New Japan Pro Wrestling the way he did on Friday night. That right there is at least a major difference from Vince's usual micromanagement.

I think Meltzer mentioned on his show today that basically, Stephanie & co. will try not to rock the boat too much as they want to prove that they can run the ship without Vince, which seems to be the stockholders' biggest concern. I believe that once they can prove that, they'll show Kevin Dunn the door. As for Bruce, sure you want to weed out every Vince guy but you can't make the misstep of putting the wrong guy in his place just for the sake of starting anew. If you want someone that understands the ever-important "18-49 demo", you need to find the right guy or right amount of people - and most importantly, make sure they're interested. Sure, we all want Paul Heyman to get another crack but does he really want it or is he content with his position as Roman Reigns' special counsel on TV?

[The Thread Killer]

12 minutes ago, SirEdger said:

Sure, we all want Paul Heyman to get another crack but does he really want it or is he content with his position as Roman Reigns' special counsel on TV?

By all accounts, Stephanie HATES Paul Heyman, stemming mostly from when he was Head Writer on Smackdown and she was Head of Creative. She actually suspended him for insubordination. I don’t know what her plans are going to be, but it’s probably a safe bet Paul Heyman does not figure into them, at least if she really has anything to say about it. At this point in his life, I get the impression Heyman is just happy to be collecting a big paycheck.

[Dale Wolfe]

Heyman should not be let loose on creative 

They need new blood not 25 year old ideas

[Richeyedwards]

25 minutes ago, Dale Wolfe said:

Heyman should not be let loose on creative 

They need new blood not 25 year old ideas

 

Are you sure you don't want 5 new cuck centric angles?

 

[Coffey]

They should get rid of Kevin Dunn, Michael Hayes & Bruce Prichard immediately.

If they want new creative, they should bring in fresh faces. Not another shot for Heyman or Bischoff. 

We also don't need Stephanie & Triple H all over TV again. Lest we forget the whole Authority bullshit that killed TV for what, two years?

[JRH]

I'd keep Hayes around, but as a historian. He's probably got enough knowledge of the history of the business.

[sek69]

I suppose the real question is how long do Steph/Hunter/Nick feel they need to keep things relatively status quo? I expect a lot of smaller changes that were directly tied to Vince quirks (like most of WWE Newspeak), but things like the general presentation to stay more or less the same for a little while longer. 

[Jmare007]

This should be big enough to not warrant a return.