Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?

[sek69]

1 minute ago, El-P said:

Pretty much. I would also work on the inner pace of the shows. Backstage segments feel super rushed usually. The fact they never replay any spots after the matches also gives the show a feel of everything being way too rushed and moving from way too fast from stuff that just happened. I don't need a comeback to the Nitro style (although I loved it) but fr fuck's sake when Toni Storm does a second rope piledriver, you need to show that shit 5 times in a row during the post match and let the celebration breathe a bit.

The show run by the guy who's (allegedly) off his tits on Adderall seems rushed? Perish the thought 

[Alucard]

2 hours ago, El-P said:

Is Abadon still around ? She really came off like a third rate Su Yung / Rosemary to me, never saw the appeal (especially when her work was not good anyway).

She's on Elevation and Dark this week for the first time in a couple months.

I agree that Su Yung is #1 and the best in that regard, but still thought Abadon came off kind of awesome. I loved her Halloween deathmatch with Britt last year and hope they bring her back up to TV for this year's. 

[Embrodak]

Get rid of both Sammy and Andrade, the former because he seems like an overly dramatic little punk (who doesn't even take care of himself and is just fucking begging to be paralyzed with some of the shit he does) and the latter because he doesn't actually do anything worth watching on AEW television. Andrade doesn't seem crazy and abusive like del Rio did, but he does seem to have the same problem of assuming that he's more important than he actually is because there are not a lot of workers to appeal to the Hispanic demographic.

[sek69]

Part of it is the Lucha mindset, guys have to basically be in Bruiser Brody mode in terms of looking out for themselves to the point it is very off putting to US promoters/wrestlers since we haven't really seen someone like that here since, well, Brody. 

That's where stuff like "WWE got mad Sin Cara acts like a big star" comes from. That's where LA Park and his famous difficult to work with stories come from. They came up in a business that is very much still in the "slimy territory promoter" era, so they are more or less taught to be difficult to work with.

Having said all that, if you tend to be an asshole on top of all of that.....well that's where the fun starts.

[KawadaSmile]

Andrade does mention (not sure if his remarks are true) in his recent interview that Vikingo was getting paid in peanuts and that CMLL undercarders were making more money than AAA main eventers.

[sek69]

36 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Andrade does mention (not sure if his remarks are true) in his recent interview that Vikingo was getting paid in peanuts and that CMLL undercarders were making more money than AAA main eventers.

That's more or less true, the money in Mexico is working for the off-TV events and AAA in particular is still in the 80s WWF "think of all the exposure you'll get from being on TV" mode. 

[Coffey]

6 hours ago, DMJ said:

120 performers for 180 minutes.

More performers than you actually have minutes to show in a given week

This really puts it into perspective. 

[Rah]

1 hour ago, sek69 said:

That's more or less true, the money in Mexico is working for the off-TV events and AAA in particular is still in the 80s WWF "think of all the exposure you'll get from being on TV" mode. 

For sure. 

Though I think a lot of those guys buy into it with the belief that they'll more easily catch a PWG (or, now, AEW) payday because of AAA work rather than the possibility of getting an American gig then getting pulled for no discernible reason because CMLL is CMLL

 

[sek69]

3 minutes ago, Rah said:

Though I think a lot of those guys buy into it with the belief that they'll more easily catch a PWG (or, now, AEW) payday because of AAA work rather than the possibility of getting an American gig then getting pulled for no discernible reason because CMLL is CMLL

Andrade's comment was more of a burn that it appears because CMLL is notoriously cheap when it comes to paying folks so for him to say a midcard CMLL guy makes more is devastating,  

Basically your choices as a wrestler in Mexico is work for CMLL who will pay peanuts and throw a hissy over every outside booking you get, or AAA who also will pay peanuts but let you work wherever you want to. 

[El-P]

Sammy gives me a Shawn Micheals circa 96 vibe. Immature douchebag, incredibly talented, heat magnet both in and out of the ring.

AEW should sign Bandido and push him hard as the latino star they crave (I know they offered a contract, but he apparently has not signed, yet). And fuck, just do something more with Rey Fénix, he totally outshined Ricochet in LU as a single star. And have Penta also work his magic in singles and do some crazy-ass brawl with Swerve Strickland. And try Rush. They have the right people, they don't even need Andrade for that kind of cast. 

[NintendoLogic]

Pretty much everybody in Mexico wrestles for peanuts relative to top stars in the US and Japan, which is why foreign bookings are such a precious commodity. One of CMLL's big advantages in that regard was the New Japan connection, but that's largely dried up due to COVID. Also, there's still a strong mentality (or at least there was a decade or so ago) that Arena Mexico is the cathedral of lucha libre and you haven't really made it until you've worked there.

[The Man in Blak]

22 hours ago, El-P said:

Sammy gives me a Shawn Micheals circa 96 vibe. Immature douchebag, incredibly talented, heat magnet both in and out of the ring. 

He’s basically Jimmy Del Ray to me. Yeah, he flies around a lot, great; I’m not sure there’s a wrestler that’s done less with more TV time and featured programs in AEW history than Sammy. He almost inadvertently turned Dan Lambert face not that long ago. Other than scoring Tay Conti and leeching heat off of Jericho, the most he’s ever been over has been from doing a cue card gimmick during commercial breaks. If AEW had given his push to Ricky Starks, they might have already created their version of The Rock by now.

[Sweet Brown Koko]

Sammy and Andrade got into it:

 

https://www.postwrestling.com/2022/10/05/report-andrade-el-idolo-sent-home-following-backstage-incident-with-sammy-guevara/

 

https://www.tmz.com/2022/10/05/aew-dynamite-stars-sammy-guevara-andrade-backstage-fight-altercation-sent-home/

[MoS]

Meltz says Andrade is clearly looking to get fired, he and a couple of former NXT guys want to go back to WWE. I think if someone really wants to leave your organisation, they should be allowed to do so. It's unethical to keep people employed against their will. We shit on WWE for this all the time, AEW should not be doing this either

[WingedEagle]

Wrestlers who want to leave should negotiate contracts that allow them to give notice.  Put pen to paper and know what you're signing.

[MoS]

We all know that wrestlers have very little leverage when it comes to negotiating contracts. It's true for MMA as well. One reason Dana White always resented GSP was because GSP used a professional agency to negotiate with the UFC on his behalf, and it meant they couldn't just walk all over him. But not everyone can afford that.

[NintendoLogic]

The key difference is that WWE treats contracts as a one-way street that only impose binding obligations on the other party. Tony has always held up his end and only terminated people for cause, so it's not unreasonable to expect the wrestlers he signs to do likewise. Plus, granting releases to everyone to asks for one would effectively reward WWE for contract tampering. The bigger takeaway is that wrestlers should never sign multi-year deals unless they're certain it's the last one they'll ever sign.

[Dale Wolfe]

It was a rarity in itself but combat sports should have learned from the Demetrious Johnson/Ben Askren swap deal and made it a regular occurrence, and so should AEW/WWE

[strobogo]

Andrade did what he said he was going to do, Sammy got out of pocket with his tweet, got that two piece and a biscuit. Still, not great to have another backstage fight. But also fuck Sammy.

[C.S.]

2 hours ago, MoS said:

I think if someone really wants to leave your organisation, they should be allowed to do so.

I also think they shouldn't get into physical altercations backstage. That's criminal behavior IMO, and if I'm Tony Khan, I'm getting this guy put behind bars. That's what would happen if you and I got into a fistfight at our workplace, no?

[Flyin' Brian]

If Omega and the Bucks were coming back anytime soon, I figured they would have shown up last night. It's been a month since they were suspended, and Punk will be on commentary for CFFC Saturday. Omega's contract is up in February if they don't tack any time on for injuries, is it possible he just doesn't come back? He probably has a match with Osprey coming up at Wrestle Kingdom to build up to, maybe they do some of that on AEW TV but they don't have to. 

[KawadaSmile]

This Andrade/Sammy situation is weird.

According to Andrade, that whole situation was solved beforehand, through conversation. Then Sammy starts talking shit. Like what the fuck did you think was going to happen? This was all in the open, what the fuck is TK doing, as he's so active on the Blue Bird app?

[Flyin' Brian]

according to Andrade is the problem. Whether the story is true or not, he’s the one that goes telling it to make Sammy look bad. If it was solved, no reason to bring it up and tell details, right? Telling the story in an open forum is what causes the problems. Then starting a fight backstage after everyone involved was warned not to. TK should just let the malcontents go with the clause that they can’t talk about AEW or anyone there publicly after they leave. Then Andrade and Charlotte can go be the new HHH and Stephanie storyline wise or whatever. If people don’t want to be in AEW they shouldn’t be. I wouldn’t waste money paying them to stay at home. Maybe you release them with the condition they can’t sign with WWE for X amount of time like it was rumored was the condition for Black’s release. Either way, it’s the people starting trouble that are the problem in my eyes, not the ones that react to the trouble especially when it’s someone making trouble for them. 

[sek69]

It seems as if Andrade saw Sammy as someone easy to goad into a fight to get out of his deal, and it not like he was wrong there.  Problem was that management figured out what he was trying to do, and to his credit Sammy didn't swing back to create a "we gotta punish both sides" deal.

[Matt D]

After hearing the Helwani interview with Khan today, here's what I think the ROH mindset is:

He feels like he needs to build the brand up with WBD, to establish it in their eyes, to put some star power behind it, to show that it can make money. My guess is that yes, it's because he wants another hour of TV and seems to think that this might be the best way to do it, but even more than that, he has the library and it's relatively huge compared to the AEW library so to get over the brand with the suits, he could potentially get a better deal on streaming the library.

I could be wrong, but that's what I'm thinking now.