Comments that don't warrant a thread 2010-2011

[Guest kowking]

That is a good read. Thank you for sharing.

[jdw]

The rest of it is good as well. My favorite Bruce piece every. I kind of wish that Bruce did one of those self published books (as other have) of his pieces up through roughly the end of the War.

 

John

[rovert]

The rest of it is good as well. My favorite Bruce piece every. I kind of wish that Bruce did one of those self published books (as other have) of his pieces up through roughly the end of the War.

 

John

Yeah even with improvements Wade made navigating old articles still isnt the most enjoyable experience.

[Jingus]

They posted that article before in the free public section of the Torch, which is where I read it. So I doubt anyone would get mad about it being shared now.

[JHawk]

Weird to hear someone say Cornette was doing the Gangstas angle with "kid gloves" when he lost a lot of TV markets because of that angle. He might have gone out of business sooner if he went any further with it.

[Jingus]

The mid-90s was awfully sissy about that sort of thing. Didn't the Tommy/Beulah/Kimona deal get ECW thrown off some networks? Nobody would give a fuck about that sort of thing now. For a long time, wrestling television shows were held to this weird double standard where they weren't allowed to present "edgy" content like regular television routinely did. The Austin/Pillman gun incident was held to be the most controversial thing on the entire USA network, even though they routinely aired cop shows or spy shows in which people got shot dead on every single episode.

[rovert]

Every so often Kurt Brown goes on funny flights of fantasy on his podcast Slammin' Stan. Anyway Kurt thinks the US should adopt an asylum policy for all luchadores as well as launching a "Stop Killing Wrestlers" PSA. These needs to get done.

[Loss]

The mid-90s was awfully sissy about that sort of thing. Didn't the Tommy/Beulah/Kimona deal get ECW thrown off some networks? Nobody would give a fuck about that sort of thing now. For a long time, wrestling television shows were held to this weird double standard where they weren't allowed to present "edgy" content like regular television routinely did. The Austin/Pillman gun incident was held to be the most controversial thing on the entire USA network, even though they routinely aired cop shows or spy shows in which people got shot dead on every single episode.

It's all about intent. The difference is that wrestling intentionally blurs the line between work and shoot, and historically, wrestling has tried to make audiences think it's real. TV dramas and cop shows don't have guys using their gimmick names in public and good guys not traveling with the bad guys. So, a gun confrontation doesn't come off as an entertainment segment to a naive audience, it comes across as a heated rivalry that has gone way too far. Even if an audience isn't fooled by it, it comes across as a desperate attempt to exploit real violence, and even those who aren't fooled by it see that the intent is to make viewers think this really happened, which is not at all the intent of a cop show.

 

Yes, there are a million counters to that argument, and I can probably have a debate with myself on that topic, but I think that's the logic behind that type of complaint.

[artDDP]

The mid-90s was awfully sissy about that sort of thing. Didn't the Tommy/Beulah/Kimona deal get ECW thrown off some networks? Nobody would give a fuck about that sort of thing now. For a long time, wrestling television shows were held to this weird double standard where they weren't allowed to present "edgy" content like regular television routinely did. The Austin/Pillman gun incident was held to be the most controversial thing on the entire USA network, even though they routinely aired cop shows or spy shows in which people got shot dead on every single episode.

It's all about intent. The difference is that wrestling intentionally blurs the line between work and shoot, and historically, wrestling has tried to make audiences think it's real. TV dramas and cop shows don't have guys using their gimmick names in public and good guys not traveling with the bad guys. So, a gun confrontation doesn't come off as an entertainment segment to a naive audience, it comes across as a heated rivalry that has gone way too far. Even if an audience isn't fooled by it, it comes across as a desperate attempt to exploit real violence, and even those who aren't fooled by it see that the intent is to make viewers think this really happened, which is not at all the intent of a cop show.

 

Yes, there are a million counters to that argument, and I can probably have a debate with myself on that topic, but I think that's the logic behind that type of complaint.

 

Loss, your argument is pretty much spot-on. I also remember the WWF hyped this a week earlier with a phone interview with Pillman or something like that where he threatened that if Austin did try to break in he'd be waiting for him with his gun.

 

So, in 1996, the WWF pushed an angle where one wrestler was going to break into another's home and assault him and the other wrestler would be waiting with a loaded gun. They were encouraging you to tune in next week under the assumption one wrestler may just kill the other.

[S.L.L.]

The mid-90s was awfully sissy about that sort of thing. Didn't the Tommy/Beulah/Kimona deal get ECW thrown off some networks? Nobody would give a fuck about that sort of thing now. For a long time, wrestling television shows were held to this weird double standard where they weren't allowed to present "edgy" content like regular television routinely did. The Austin/Pillman gun incident was held to be the most controversial thing on the entire USA network, even though they routinely aired cop shows or spy shows in which people got shot dead on every single episode.

It's all about intent. The difference is that wrestling intentionally blurs the line between work and shoot, and historically, wrestling has tried to make audiences think it's real. TV dramas and cop shows don't have guys using their gimmick names in public and good guys not traveling with the bad guys. So, a gun confrontation doesn't come off as an entertainment segment to a naive audience, it comes across as a heated rivalry that has gone way too far. Even if an audience isn't fooled by it, it comes across as a desperate attempt to exploit real violence, and even those who aren't fooled by it see that the intent is to make viewers think this really happened, which is not at all the intent of a cop show.

 

Yes, there are a million counters to that argument, and I can probably have a debate with myself on that topic, but I think that's the logic behind that type of complaint.

 

The main argument against it, as far as I can tell, is that wrestling by this point was supposed to be more or less open about it all being a work. The main argument to that, of course, is that "more or less open" isn't good enough, and that the state of semi-kayfabe that wrestling has been in for over 20 years now is really a bigger hindrance than going all the way to one side or the other would be, but that's a much bigger argument.

[Jingus]

I know wrestling brings a lot of this crap on itself with its wheezy old insistence on clinging to the last shreds of kayfabe, but it still seems odd. Especially when the loudest complainers are usually non-fans in the first place, PTC types of the "why don't these morons understand it's all fake?!" mindset.

 

I do still wonder how they get away with airing their television shows with the entire production crew going uncredited. Pretty sure the tech unions have very specific rules about that sort of thing. Offhand, I can't think of another show on television which never lists any credits at all.

[Al]

I know wrestling brings a lot of this crap on itself with its wheezy old insistence on clinging to the last shreds of kayfabe, but it still seems odd. Especially when the loudest complainers are usually non-fans in the first place, PTC types of the "why don't these morons understand it's all fake?!" mindset.

 

I do still wonder how they get away with airing their television shows with the entire production crew going uncredited. Pretty sure the tech unions have very specific rules about that sort of thing. Offhand, I can't think of another show on television which never lists any credits at all.

I remember Tuesday Night Titans used to issue credits, as did WCW Saturday Night. And ECW's Hardcore TV did as well.

[Strummer]

so did SNME

[Guest Slickster]

So did WCW PPVs until late 1997, IIRC.

[Jingus]

All of which make it even stranger that wrestling programs have gotten away with having no credits for at least the past decade. Tech unions must have specific rules about this sort of thing. That's obvious from the majority of television shows now, where most networks zoom the end credits by you as fast as possible while showing a preview of what's on next. They clearly wouldn't even bother having the credits if they weren't forced to. And certainly all those infamous "Hollywood writers" which they keep hiring must belong to the WGA, which is infamously strict in its credit practices.

 

So how the hell does wrestling make itself the only exception? It's something I've wondered for years, and I've never talked to anyone who could explain it. A cursory google and wiki search reveals nothing helpful.

[flyonthewall2983]

There aren't even credits on the DVD's.

[sek69]

Wasn't one of the reasons WWE moved to in-house production was to use non union employees? I also remember one of those shoot interviews with someone who used to work in production for WWE who stated that they stopped showing credits so employees couldn't claim credit for creating anything.

[Jingus]

But they can't possibly all be non-union. Freddie Prinze Jr has gotta be in the WGA, he's got multiple previous writing credits for a couple of other tv shows.

[kjh]

I think Freddie Prinze Jr would be the exception that proves the rule.

[Bix]

Plenty of current and former WWE writers are WGA members, but WWE is considered sports programming, so they don't fall under WGA scrutiny and that's why the strike didn't effect them.

 

At least some of the travelling production crew isn't in-house, as Dave Meltzer often talks about them doing mainstream network sports broadcasts on the weekend.

[kjh]

Jeff Hardy almost pulled from TNA's Final Resolution PPV due to "exhaustion".

 

Up late partying with Matt I presume...

[jdw]

Would appear to be the case from Caldwell.

 

John

[Strummer]

 

who is the overweight blonde who's talking about Al Snow fucking Bobcat?

 

about .50 in

[Coffey]

It's Baby Doll, apparently.

[Strummer]

It's Baby Doll, apparently.

Yikes!

 

at first glance I thought it was Lisa Lampanelli