WWE TV 12/7 - 12/13

[PeteF3]

Just as a general question, not to defend the WWE storytelling culture...how difficult has the rise of Twitter and social media affected the ability to put on a good cliffhanger for a live show?

 

To go way back...when Shawn Michaels keeled over in 1995, once the show went off the air that was *it* until next Saturday morning and WWF Mania--you were waiting for 6 days with no wrestlers posting to Twitter or Instagram, no instant updates on a WWE website much less an Observer/Torch site. If a wrestler were to do a medical emergency angle today, you'd expect to get an update on your phone or on the Network before midnight struck. It doesn't work like a fictional TV show where all the info is entirely in the hands of the writer/director who can cut off and pick up on a story wherever they feel like.

[Jmare007]

 

Apparently this was taken yesterday from RAW before the end of the show.

[fakeplastictrees]

Just as a general question, not to defend the WWE storytelling culture...how difficult has the rise of Twitter and social media affected the ability to put on a good cliffhanger for a live show?

 

To go way back...when Shawn Michaels keeled over in 1995, once the show went off the air that was *it* until next Saturday morning and WWF Mania--you were waiting for 6 days with no wrestlers posting to Twitter or Instagram, no instant updates on a WWE website much less an Observer/Torch site. If a wrestler were to do a medical emergency angle today, you'd expect to get an update on your phone or on the Network before midnight struck. It doesn't work like a fictional TV show where all the info is entirely in the hands of the writer/director who can cut off and pick up on a story wherever they feel like.

 

 

I think its simply really. Film something backstage.

 

Example (and this is completely off the top of my head and not the BEST idea, but you will get my point):

 

Someone has been taking out Roman Reigns friends one-by-one backstage and leaving cryptic notes and clues. Its now down to Ambrose and Reigns and Reigns has a main event match against ADR. It has been established earlier that night that Sheamus is not in the arena, The New Day have been taken out by Team Extreme. Reigns is about to beat ADR, but now he has to face the odds: 3-on-1. Somehow- through God's grace Roman surives and heads to the back to find a beaten and bloody Ambrose who is being attended by medical staff. One last clue leads Roman to a locker room door- he opens it and gasps. "What the hell are you doing here!?"

 

FADE TO BLACK

 

 

Now again...this is not some of the best writing in the whole world (i will need to actually sit down and think of something truly exciting), but this is how Raw can end sometimes. I always felt a big missed opportunity for pro wrestling (especially WWE) in the internet age is to bring in some mystery writers and add that element to the show. Everything should keep people guessing and reward the viewer for paying attention and taking mental notes. To go past the social media aspect, WWE can do what sitcoms in the 80's and 90's did...film 3 different 'endings'. Also, WWE has such a large roster of people not doing anything that it REALLY can't be that hard to setup stories that interwine instead of being its own thing. Arrested Development and other shows are good at doing this and WWE has done it in the past in very small aspects.

 

There are ways WWE can keep a show interesting while social media runs rampart, but they will need to change the format, direction, etc.

[DMJ]

It may not have been a pure cliffhanger, but one of the best things the WWE did this year was the John Cena US Invitiational. Each week he faced a new challenger and it wasn't even like it was some returning mega-star every week - the concept worked because it provided vareity, not necessarily big names and crazy swerves. So maybe cliffhanger isn't the best word for it as much as "hook." What is the hook for the next show? Was there one for this week's show?

[Jimmy Redman]

The last time I remember feeling like there was a genuine cliffhanger/must tune in next week! feel to Raw was during the Summer of Punk. I can't really remember specific details about the shows off hand now, and reading them back would probably not sound much different to the usual fare, but the vibe they struck with Punk at that time gave his stuff a 'must watch' feel. One week he drops the pipebomb, the next he goes face to face with Vince, then he walks out with the title, then Raw is in chaos without him, then he's crashing the Comic Con, then he comes back, next he and Cena face off, next he confronts Hunter...like I said the details escape me now but it felt like things were actually progressing week-to-week, and you HAD to tune in to see what was happening with him and the belt. It didn't last long because they burned through the angle so quickly and lost track, but for a month or so there it was riveting. They haven't captured that kind of vibe since.

 

It's easy to blame the Authority angle but their reliance on it has really rendered storylines meaningless. The problem with the Authority is that they never go away. There's no reason to invest in stories involving them because we all know how they end: with the same status quo. They run through the exact same angles - babyface vs Authority, Authority clashing with its heel champion - over and over with various people and nothing ever happens as a result, and it's been years now. The few wins anyone has had against them - WM30, last year's SS - are quickly reversed and everything goes back to normal. So what's the point? It's one of the reasons why there's no incentive to tune in each week, because the chances of something significant happening are few.

[PeteF3]

 

Just as a general question, not to defend the WWE storytelling culture...how difficult has the rise of Twitter and social media affected the ability to put on a good cliffhanger for a live show?

 

To go way back...when Shawn Michaels keeled over in 1995, once the show went off the air that was *it* until next Saturday morning and WWF Mania--you were waiting for 6 days with no wrestlers posting to Twitter or Instagram, no instant updates on a WWE website much less an Observer/Torch site. If a wrestler were to do a medical emergency angle today, you'd expect to get an update on your phone or on the Network before midnight struck. It doesn't work like a fictional TV show where all the info is entirely in the hands of the writer/director who can cut off and pick up on a story wherever they feel like.

 

 

I think its simply really. Film something backstage.

 

Example (and this is completely off the top of my head and not the BEST idea, but you will get my point):

 

Someone has been taking out Roman Reigns friends one-by-one backstage and leaving cryptic notes and clues. Its now down to Ambrose and Reigns and Reigns has a main event match against ADR. It has been established earlier that night that Sheamus is not in the arena, The New Day have been taken out by Team Extreme. Reigns is about to beat ADR, but now he has to face the odds: 3-on-1. Somehow- through God's grace Roman surives and heads to the back to find a beaten and bloody Ambrose who is being attended by medical staff. One last clue leads Roman to a locker room door- he opens it and gasps. "What the hell are you doing here!?"

 

FADE TO BLACK

 

 

But this is my point (and I get this was quickly thrown together without a lot of thought)--you can't just "fade to black" on a modern-day WWE show the way you can on The Walking Dead, because Walking Dead characters aren't encouraged to make in-character Tweets and Instagrams and Vines all throughout the week. In this instance, what would the kayfabe reasoning be to stop Reigns or a third party from talking about this situation on Twitter shortly after the show goes off the air? I don't know how often you can go with just, "I'll say what I have to say Monday night."

 

Again, this is not to defend how WWE goes about business, but there *does* need to be more thought put into cliffhangers than you needed to in the late '90s when they were all the rage. To execute an angle like this would require a complete re-thinking of how WWE treats social media--some may say to that, "Good!" and I'm not sure they're wrong.

[Jimmy Redman]

I think again, look to the Summer of Punk to see how it COULD be used. Incorporate social media into it. Not just in the sense of "tweet in character" but have it be part of the angle. Punk took the belt home and then used Twitter to post pics of him hanging with it, pics of him going to ball games with it while Raw was on, he stormed Comic Con and it was all over Youtube, there was that footage of him at the indy show...all things that happened off TV, on social media to enhance the angle.

 

If the angle described above happened, for example, have Roman tweet that he wants to meet the mystery person during the week in private, then that he couldn't find them, or they didn't show up (have him take a video of this meeting for "proof" but the guy doesn't show, only leaves another clue...), drop cryptic hints for hardcore fans to guess at, and then all is revealed next week on Raw. Not the best example, sure, but the possibilities are there. With an act like the Wyatt Family, there are really a myriad of things they could do off TV with them, shoot spooky skits in some swamps, show Bray holding cult meetings or brainwashing civilians, whatever the fuck.

 

(God fucking damn it, now you've reminded me of the time I was fantasy booking the Summer of Punk angle. I know what I'll be wasting the rest of my day on.)

[fakeplastictrees]

In all honesty, the resolution would be to end the social media kayfabe aspect. WWE and its Superstars need to treat Raw, NXT, Mainevent, Smackdown, PPV, etc. as TV/Internet shows and nothing more. WWE cannot find a balance and in all reality, there isn't a balance that will make WWE look good more than 99% of the time. If kayfabe is just flat out killed online and the guys and gals handle it like other TV stars do for BONES, Walking Dead, Better Call Saul, SUV, etc. it would bring WWE, etc. into the 21st century. This would mean WWE would need to remove all the links to all the superstars instagrams on the WWE website. For this to work, WWE will also need to ensure that all angles relating to a show HAPPEN on that show and not on social media.

 

It would be a complete overhaul on how the company currently does business. How can it be done with the same formula? It would have to be in the fashion of the U.S. challenge as mentioned above and returns (but again-how long can that gimmick last until WWE starts going into TNA terrority in bringing in Al Snow and selling it as a big deal?).

[sek69]

The weird thing is they do it with NXT people on Breaking Ground. People discuss their characters/gimmicks in a way that clearly shows there's a difference between their real and TV personas without it being overt. Does it destroy the business to show Carmella speaking in her normal voice in one segment and her exaggerated Noo Yawk gimmick voice the next? Of course not. i bet Vince would probably shit a brick if a main roster person did it though.

[Alucard]

The 'hook' for this week could've been who would join Dreamer & The Dudleyz and they quickly had that reveal in the open. After Bubba was tweeting out Enter Sandman lyrics earlier in the day..

 

As for cliffhangers, it's something Lucha Underground has done really well. In the aforementioned Summer of Punk, the night Punk came back with Cult of Personality was one of the last times I remember Raw ending with a ton of buzz, super cool moment at the time.

 

 

I know the company is PG, but we could have seriously skipped all of that Tater Tot nonsense and five minutes of talking by having Reigns call Sheamus a Bitch. Not that bad of a word, and it would have gotten a much bigger pop than anything else that happened.

 

Agreed, especially considering that's a word he just used towards Wyatt a few months ago and has used in the past against Kane/Rollins.

[dexstar]

In all honesty, the resolution would be to end the social media kayfabe aspect. WWE and its Superstars need to treat Raw, NXT, Mainevent, Smackdown, PPV, etc. as TV/Internet shows and nothing more. WWE cannot find a balance and in all reality, there isn't a balance that will make WWE look good more than 99% of the time. If kayfabe is just flat out killed online and the guys and gals handle it like other TV stars do for BONES, Walking Dead, Better Call Saul, SUV, etc. it would bring WWE, etc. into the 21st century.

 

Ding ding ding

Social media kayfabe makes no sense. If they insist on, you need accounts for both. I'd rather they don't have social media kayfabe at all, but having a separation between "Roman Reigns" twitter and Joe Anoa'i twitter is better than the weird mix that happens now.

 

Edit to expand because I hit enter too quick:

 

If they want kayfabe twitter accounts and shit, that's ultimately fine but the characters they have right now simply don't have enough depth to sustain it, and neither do the stories. Nothing really happens and nobody really has anything more to their character than "I want title". You can't tweet all fucking week about tater tots.

[C.S.]

The 'hook' for this week could've been who would join Dreamer & The Dudleyz and they quickly had that reveal in the open. After Bubba was tweeting out Enter Sandman lyrics earlier in the day.

I agree completely that Raw needs more "cliffhangers" and "hooks," but to be fair, Rhyno is not worthy of building a three-hour mystery segment around. Even those fans with no knowledge of NXT wouldn't consider him a thrilling surprise. And those who do watch NXT, of course, probably weren't surprised at all (I certainly wasn't).

[dexstar]

Catching up on Breaking Ground which ties in a bit with that social media discussion.

 

Guys like New Day were posting pretty amazing Instagram and social content on their own long before this run ... imagine if they harnessed some of that creativity running through the roster (Becky, Owens, others are also pretty entertaining outside the Raw environment) and did something like kayfabe Breaking Ground on the Network? I'd love to see a day in the life of Rusev/Lana in character, New Day in character during their travels, Kevin Owens being a jackass to parking attendants, etc.

[sek69]

So is the tater tots promo worse than the magic beanstalk one? I've been going back and forth on that one in my brain.

[Matt D]

Catching up on Breaking Ground which ties in a bit with that social media discussion.

 

Guys like New Day were posting pretty amazing Instagram and social content on their own long before this run ... imagine if they harnessed some of that creativity running through the roster (Becky, Owens, others are also pretty entertaining outside the Raw environment) and did something like kayfabe Breaking Ground on the Network? I'd love to see a day in the life of Rusev/Lana in character, New Day in character during their travels, Kevin Owens being a jackass to parking attendants, etc.

 

Why can't I find the Lord Alfred Hayes teaches Sensational Sherri manners skit from one of the Coliseum videos online?

[Johnny Sorrow]

You all do know that "tater tots" worked with that RAW crowd and crowds will be chanting it , right? Pretending something dopey didn't get over doesn't mean it didn't get over . "Bald Headed Geek" got over in 86 and that was fucking dumb, too. 😎

[jcmmnx]

Bald Headed Geek wasn't being relied upon to get a reaction for the top feud in the company, and it was a much better feud than anything WWE has now. Boogey Woogie Man promos have been one of my favorite things watching the old stuff for the first time on the Network.

[Loss]

I agree that "Tater Tots" was stupid and it would have been embarrassing had a non-fan been in the room, but one of the WWF's top-drawing heels of the 80s played to "Paula!" chants. Another one was often accused of wearing a skirt. Somehow, they've made heels like that effective in the past, so I do think it's worth trying to figure out the difference.

[PeteF3]

I think both of those felt more organic than the "tater tots" line, which is based on an awfully thin premise (Irish = potatoes = ... little potatoes?) "Paula" came from the fans first--to my knowledge, at least. I don't recall a babyface dropping it in a promo and then the fans picking up on it from that. Piper's kilt was pretty low-hanging fruit and was way less of a logical leap than Reigns' attempted catchphrase.

 

Edit: Get your minds out of the gutter and try to rise above that very wrong-sounding "low-hanging fruit" line.

[DMJ]

So, the 12/17 show in LA is set to have Lesnar/Del Rio, Reigns/Sheamus, and Owens/Ambrose.

 

I don't see why or how the Network shouldn't be airing this.

 

If I'm not mistaken, they touted October's Live At MSG and the summer's Beast In The East shows as getting loads of views on the Network (and Lesnar/Show and Lesnar/Kofi kind of pale in comparison to Lesnar/Del Rio). My only other thought is that the Sheamus/Reigns match should be dark - there's no sense in them having a Network special match so quickly after TLC, especially if it seems they'll be wrestling again at the Rumble (kinda like Cena/Rollins in a cage was kinda unnecessary on the Live at MSG show - or at least would've been if Show/Lesnar had gone more than 5 minutes).

[Ricky Jackson]

I think both of those felt more organic than the "tater tots" line, which is based on an awfully thin premise (Irish = potatoes = ... little potatoes?) "Paula" came from the fans first--to my knowledge, at least. I don't recall a babyface dropping it in a promo and then the fans picking up on it from that. Piper's kilt was pretty low-hanging fruit and was way less of a logical leap than Reigns' attempted catchphrase.

 

Edit: Get your minds out of the gutter and try to rise above that very wrong-sounding "low-hanging fruit" line.

I'm trying, but the image entered my mind the second I read it. 😝

[shoe]

I agree the talking went long in that segment, but the fight at the end was a ton of fun , and did what it needed to do. Reigns standing tall on the verge of winning the title. NXT worked because the heel left the babyface champion laying at the end.

[Jmare007]

More Bryan fuckery.

 

http://www.straitstimes.com/lifestyle/entertainment/wwe-viewership-in-singapore-stays-strong-superstar-daniel-bryan-says . Highlights

 

On WWE's recent viewership decline:

"You have to evolve with the way the sport is evolving. So if the fans are voicing more of their displeasure with certain things, then you need to take that into account to make it entertaining because you have to please your fan base. At the end of the day, when they've spent their money, they need to know they've gotten what they wanted."

On his roller-coaster so far:

"I've worked harder than a lot of people but a lot of people who've worked harder than me haven't had the success that I've had. At the end of the day, I'll just boil it down to luck and being at the right place at the right time,"

On working on a compromise with WWE regarding his in-ring future:

"Because of my history with concussions, the WWE medical doctor wouldn't clear me. We're in the process of trying to figure out some compromise. They keep sending me to do more tests, brain MRIs, brain EGs and all my tests have come back great to the point where my brain is better than someone my age with no concussion."

[goc]

I find it very hard to believe that a guy with double digit concussions really has tests that come back better than someone without any history of concussions.

[Death From Above]

I don't really understand that quote outside of the context of "wrestlers saying bullshit things" (which is what it is so now let me put too much thought into it), because isn't the whole point of that kind of testing to measure your brain against itself at other times, as opposed to your brian vs. other brains?