Reactions to the Honorable Mention List, Part 3

[Matt D]

I'm shocked Larry Z did as well as he did, even though I had him on my ballot. One key piece for me voting for him was his feud with Nick Bockwinkel, in which he was able to outcheat Nick so much that Bock became a babyface.

The sprint match with Bock, too, is pretty much the antithesis for the old idea of what Larry was.

[ohtani's jacket]

 

But there are also some stuff that just aren't as good yet are pimped as awesome and important by vinyl collectors and hipsters because it's the new thing and cool labels are re-releasing it. Bunalim's compilation is good, with a few great tracks, but it's a *good* overview of a footnote of a band, not an amazing album.

Fair warning this is a shit post, but reading this it occurred to me that I could easily see myself agreeing with the wrestling equivalent of a comment like this, but as a comment about music or film or what have you, seems unfair and dismissive. It feels like a lot of people here and elsewhere (including myself) experience wrestling in a way that is a lot more tied to consensus relative to other art forms.

 

I care way more about music than I do about wrestling, and an equivalent 'Greatest Musicians Ever' based heavily on technical proficiency not only sounds horrific but also doesn't come close to touching on why music is great, or how we relate to it. Why I'm on board with that type of thing in wrestling terms doesn't make any sense to me, and I wonder if the fundamental difference is the form itself or the culture of criticism around it.

 

 

This was interesting. I enjoy taking part in album polls, but I don't think I'd ever consider taking part in a Greatest Musician Ever poll. I might be able to casually give you my top 5 in a certain style ala High Fidelity, but I'm more interested in the output than I am comparing one musician to another. Of course there are musicians I like and musicians I don't, and I suppose there are musicians that I think are better or worse than other. But a big difference is that I don't belong to a music site that is the equivalent of PWO and don't get into debates about musicians with other people. If I like a musician I check out more of their music or music with a similar sound and if I don't like someone's music I don't listen to their stuff again. It's completely different from the way I consume pro-wrestling. Wrestling is kind of the opposite. I'm less interested in ranking the output than I am the workers. I don't mind taking part in projects where people rank matches from a promotion or an era or genre, but I'm not really interested in a Greatest Match Ever list. In a way I think it's easier to rank wrestlers than musicians because they're all basically doing the same thing. They may work in different styles or play different roles but the basic skill set is the same. There are far fewer wrestlers than there are musicians and there is far less variety. And unlike music where if I don't like a band I won't listen to them again, it's difficult to completely avoid workers whom you don't like. But I think the main reason is that I don't belong to any music forums.

[ohtani's jacket]

 

Aww no, little Stevie Grey! You may now proceed with your list of the Top 100 Most Overrated Wrestlers of All-Time ;p

That is what I plan on calling the list when Flair is named number 1.

 

 

If Flair is No.1 you can blame the Cult of the Old.

[anarchistxx]

Low-Ki is helped by the fact that the majority of the voters will have seen his run. It seems that a good proportion of the user base was either around for the indie boom between 2000 and 2007 or is aware of it and has revisited it retrospectively. Ki is also massively helped by the fact he got to work Brian Danielson, Samoa Joe and just about every other top US worker of the past decade and a half, as well as a lot of Puro guys.

 

I like him - he had an aura and presence in an era when a lot of indie workers were accomplished in ring but unable to project a character or sense of presence. I have a special nostalgia for that period so he made my list, although his final placing does seem a little high on here.

[Jimmy Redman]

I have no idea how Cesaro and Christian are still alive, but I love it. Even if they drop today it's a win in my book.

[cubbymark]

 

 

I'm shocked Larry Z did as well as he did, even though I had him on my ballot. One key piece for me voting for him was his feud with Nick Bockwinkel, in which he was able to outcheat Nick so much that Bock became a babyface.

The sprint match with Bock, too, is pretty much the antithesis for the old idea of what Larry was.

Is that the one Larry wins in like 3 minutes with a roll of quarters or the nunchucks?

[KrisZ]

Down to 80 now with Ki and Grey gone

[NotJayTabb]

Grey and Larry take a hit from my list. Saw Grey live vs Mal Sanders in a WoS showcase match back in 2005, and I really wish that it could've been 2016 me watching it rather than 2005 me, who enjoyed the match but didn't have the "Oh fuck, I'm seeing Steve Grey live" factor that I would do now

[goc]

Glad Larry Z did so well. A nice showing for a guy who has been run down for years in some circles as a guy who sucked and did nothing but stall. He has a lot of good matches and as far as the stalling goes it never bothered me because he was so good at it. I would rather watch Larry stall through a squash match while heeling on the jobber, crowd,ref, and anyone else in sight than watch the vast majority of squash matches. Either kill the jobbers in quick or dominant fashion or do like Larry and Adrian Street and get your character over with schtick. The 5 plus minute squash match spent working over the jobber with holds is the most boring thing in the world to me.

[JerryvonKramer]

Grey and Ki my 24th and 25th soldiers

[The Man in Blak]

One last bit for the (sigh) objectivity/subjectivity debate - I think the middle ground word that people are looking for is "rigorous" (see my post at the end of this thread full of depressingly familiar discussion here):

 

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/31256-match-ratings-doing-away-with-the-meltzer-formula/page-8

 

(And maybe for the sake of everyone here, we should revive that thread and redirect discussion there so that this thread can get back to focusing on GWE reactions? Or maybe create a new GWE Philosopher's Dilemma thread, since this zombie discussion w.r.t. GWE will never die?)

[Grimmas]

Man, this loss was the hardest. I blame myself and not campaigning enough for Waltman. Sad days indeed.

[Matt D]

We just jumped big to 68 ballots for Waltman.

[JerryvonKramer]

Waltman my 26th

[Grimmas]

We just jumped big to 68 ballots for Waltman.

Next time someone gets that many is the number 98.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

Waltman came thiiiiiiiissssss close to cracking the top 100. The Yearbooks convinced me that Waltman was a top 100 guy.

[jamesie_2015]

Ah Waltman is the first one that stings. I guess that "heat" hurt his case more than it should.

[Jimmy Redman]

So I'm looking through my ballot and am I right in thinking LA PARKA is still alive???

 

Outstanding!

 

[Grimmas]

So I'm looking through my ballot and am I right in thinking LA PARKA is still alive???

 

Outstanding!

 

He is still kicking... for now.

[jpchicago23]

Noooooo not Waltman. He made my top 30 and this one stings the most. Sure his sex tape performance wasn't his strongest but he was clearly past his prime. If we had the Jenna Jameson footage he'd rank higher

[El Boricua]

I'm looking at that picture of Waltman and have the urge to fantasy book an episode of Sidekicks.

[MasterJonBurr]

I have plenty of favorites on the list, but all-time faves like Tojo Yamamoto, Shocker, Jimmy Valiant, Yumiko Hotta,Buddy Landel and current fave Dalton Castle had no chance of making this list. Plenty of guys I sorta dislike are all over my list, too, because their greatness is just undeniable, although I took a hard stance against a few well loved workers just because I feel they're just so grossly overrated.

 

And Parv is coming dangerously close to the old saying that if you live long enough, you eventually become the villain of your own story. For Parv, he's perilously close to having lived long enough to become the new jdw of his favorite wrestling board hahahahaha. I want to hear more Rick Steiner defenses and less semantic banging of heads against walls, Parv! That's where you really shine!

 

Again, the list is really fun to follow. I am STUNNED Chigusa didn't make the Top 100. Really curious if Hokuto overtakes Aja, as Nagayo's ranking makes me think that peaks may be more important than a long career.

 

Yours,

JHHBjr

[Childs]

I'm breaking up with this list. It hurts me too much.

[jaedmc]

I think if you're the 106th best ever you're pretty fucking awesome.

 

But Waltman is even better than that.

[MasterJonBurr]

I know I just posted but Akira Maeda has to be the most shocking drop, thus far. I'm part of the reason, though, I guess, as that is exactly where I had him! Once upon a time, his presence and pro style work was enough for me to consider him amongst the top workers, but looking back and realizing that he sorta sucks at his chosen style really hurt him in my eyes. C'est la vie, he will always have the Fujinami match, amongst other great NJ matches.

 

Yours,

JHHBjr