Ricky Jackson Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 With hindsight you can say it was past its peak or the most memorable moments associated with it were in the early 90s, but from personal experience and looking back recently, Grunge was still pretty big in the culture in 95-96, with 97 being the year it really faded away. Fashion was very Grungy in those years for sure, and of course the music was still everywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPulis'Cap Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 2 hours ago, strobogo said: By the time Raven debuted in January 1995, Kobain was dead, Pearl Jam was basically blacklisted in the US due to the war with Ticketmaster, Soundgarden was winding down, AIC was on hiatus, and pretty much all genres of rock had completely fallen off the charts. The time for a timely grunge gimmick was definitely not 1995. I would say something only being a couple of years behind the cultural zeitgeist is pretty decent for wrestling... As far as Raven goes, he's always been guilty pleasure territory for me. He was someone that was able to create compelling garbagy brawls during the late 90s when that was the 'in thing' with lots of smoke and mirrors type stuff, but history has probably not been kind to his promos which were always pretty rambling and nonsensical. From memory they just sounded like he'd looked up a few words in a dictionary that day and decided he would try and shoehorn them into a promo. Despite all of that, as I say, I always enjoyed him - he was fun in WCW and then liked him in TNA between 2003-05 when he got into decent shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 White Zombie Astro Creep 2000 came out in 1995 and that album was very grungy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 5 hours ago, strobogo said: Which was why the WCW reveal that he actually was a try-hard cosplay by a rich kid hilarious. I'm pretty sure that actually was part of the character initially in ECW but was dropped early on. I thought I hallucinated the nightmare fuel WCW vignettes outside a Florida (?) mansion, maybe poolside, involving Raven, Sandman (!), and Chastity. So weird. And then WWE tried to get on its moral high horse by hypocritically bemoaning that Chastity used to do porn, getting her fired from WCW for no reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 Saying grunge was on the way out in January of 1995 is a bit of a stretch considering Vitalogy was the number one album in the county at the end of December 1994. Regardless, pro wrestling isn't exactly known for capitalizing on pop culture trends in a timely manner. There was less of a gap between the death of Kurt Cobain and the debut of Raven than the death of Brandon Lee and the debut of Crow Sting. Speaking of which, Raven was initially described in the Observer as "Johnny Polo doing a take-off on 'The Crow.'" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 1 minute ago, NintendoLogic said: There was less of a gap between the death of Kurt Cobain and the debut of Raven than the death of Brandon Lee and the debut of Crow Sting. To be fair, there was a sequel to "The Crow" in 1996 - and a couple more after that - so the character was still in the public consciousness when Sting did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 Another big thing to remember about the Grunge phenomenon is that it fairly quickly expanded to become part of "Alternative", which included tons of non-Grunge acts like Smashing Pumpkins, Alanis Morissette, Nine Inch Nails, Green Day, which were HUGE in 95-97 (and beyond of course). As a high schooler in 92-95 me and my friends always used Alternative as the catch all term for the music and fashion, not Grunge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 Ricky is correct. The Chili Peppers would also be in that group--and none of the bands he or I mentioned sounded like each other. The "Homerpalooza" episode of The Simpsons aired in May 1996. It was more about "alternative" than "grunge" but it was still absolutely a thing. Grunge was a subculture of alternative just like NIN's industrial, the Pumpkins' psychedelia/dream-pop, Alanis' "adult alternative"/singer-songwriter/Lilith Fair scene, Green Day's punk, and the Chili Peppers' funk-rock. They were all different but still all under the same larger umbrella as Pearl Jam, and they were all huge in the mid-to-late '90s and some of them huge well into the 2000s. And then there's the alt-folkies, the alternative rap scene, the Neil Young/Tom Waits/Bob Dylan codgers/elder statesmen...my alt-rock radio station played all of those acts. I have to say, when I went through the '90s Yearbooks, my opinion of Raven ended up being more positive than negative. Sometimes his promos and matches were overlong and overbooked to shit but I generally found him to be at least interesting more often than not-interesting. Maybe all the negative comments I'd read from Loss and others in the reviews lowered my expectations, but he was a pleasant surprise in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 There was also the "alternative" comedy scene in the mid 90s with Bob Odenkirk, David Cross, Janeane Garofalo, etc. that kind of blended into the music scene. It was def. part of the culture until 97/98 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 12 hours ago, strobogo said: By the time Raven debuted in January 1995, Kobain was dead, Pearl Jam was basically blacklisted in the US due to the war with Ticketmaster, Soundgarden was winding down, AIC was on hiatus, and pretty much all genres of rock had completely fallen off the charts. The time for a timely grunge gimmick was definitely not 1995. Nirvana's MTV Unplugged was released in November of '94 and became the number one selling album. Pearl Jam's Vitalogy was number one in December. I bought Vitalogy the day it came out and saw Pearl Jam live in March '95, which changed my little teenage life. Nirvana and Pearl Jam were popular enough in the mid-90s that From the Muddy Banks of the Wishkah and No Code both reached number one in 1996. Alice in Chains also reached number one with their 1995 album. The height of grunge was in the early 90s, but the wrestling landscape wasn't the same in 1991 as it was in 1995. The Raven gimmick worked for the edgy presentation ECW was pushing. I don't think the gimmick sucked. Raven was just crap at promos. He was trying to do Patrick Swayze in Point Break and didn't have the acting chops for it. And I just wanna point out that he used a skate punk song for his theme., so I think there was more of a Generation X/Alt Rock vibe going on than strictly being about grunge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlekitten Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 Good lord did 90's rock suck. What a murderers row! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukeless Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 As a fellow RYMer this is an L take. Nirvana, Soundgarden, Nine Inch Nails, and R.E.M. all released some of the best music ever in the 90s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlekitten Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 Wretched! Although Nirvana and REM did release a couple of good singles. It's like rock musicians forgot how to play and be interesting in the 70's. Grunge, shoegaze, Britpop... aged terribly! Each to their own and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrifty Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 Music from every decade is good *cups ear to hear the boos*. But I never really liked Come Out and Play as a theme for Raven. Don't mind the song but Raven's theme was better in every other promotion he was in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 Grunge might not always have been great, but at least it consigned the scourge that was “Hair Metal” to the dustbin, so for that if nothing else, I am eternally grateful. No matter what you think of the popular music from the early to mid 90’s, we definitely traded up. And then…”Nu Metal” happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav'oh Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 Pour Some Sugar On Me > entirety of grunge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 Music aside, being associated with Raven (either feuding with him or being in a stable with him) ended up being a launching point for several folks getting over in ECW. Maybe he wasn't exactly on the pulse of the cultural zeitgeist, but he was a vital part of a company that ended up making the Big Two change how they did business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 8 hours ago, Dav'oh said: Pour Some Sugar On Me > entirety of grunge. This cannot be a serious take. At least mention Excitable! 8 hours ago, The Thread Killer said: And then…”Nu Metal” happened. Aged better than grunge IMO. Linkin Park fucking rocks ass. On the other hand, stuff like Disturbed and Saliva are wretched... Still, ROH and other indies wouldn't have a quarter of their success if they refused to embrace the nu metal scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 I'm a huge fan of hair metal, grunge, and nu metal, and I want them all back in my wrestling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southofheavy Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 15 hours ago, Dav'oh said: Hysteria (the song) > entirety of grunge. I can listen to this argument. 2 hours ago, Alucard said: I'm a huge fan of hair metal, grunge, and nu metal, and I want them all back in my wrestling Honestly, WWE still feels pretty nu metal at times. And it sucks. At least Smackdown has some AC/DC kickin'. One thing I love about AEW is the music, for the most part, isn't fuckin' embarrassing. I'm glad Tony is willing to shell out the money for things like "Jane." Now, if we could just get that war crime that is Bryan Danielson's theme off the airwaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southofheavy Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 7 hours ago, KawadaSmile said: Still, ROH and other indies wouldn't have a quarter of their success if they refused to embrace the nu metal scene. Yeah, but being at the ROH shows in the mid-00's and hearing "Tomorrow's Dream" by Black Sabbath after the pre-show let everyone know where the power lies, brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 14 minutes ago, southofheavy said: Honestly, WWE still feels pretty nu metal at times. And it sucks. At least Smackdown has some AC/DC kickin'. WWE music fell off a cliff after they got rid of Jim Johnston. Dude gave them banger after banger, and ever since it's been a sorry parade of Limp Bizkit wannabes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 One of the great things about wrestling is that it has the ability to make even the lamest songs seem cool. Take Bad Medicine by Bon Jovi, for instance. Terrible song, but it somehow becomes awesome when Dr. Wagner comes out to it. And the WM17 Rock/Austin promo video wouldn't be the same without My Way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlekitten Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 Metal (post-Sabbath) is the only genre I'd call irredeemable. But even I'd admit it works well for wrestling. 'Beautiful People' is still the best theme Raw has had and totally fit the energy of the show. I think we can all agree that Def Rebel is the worst in house music WWE has ever had. Criminally generic for wrestling music and a major reason why the Rumble was so flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 15 hours ago, sek69 said: WWE music fell off a cliff after they got rid of Jim Johnston. Dude gave them banger after banger, and ever since it's been a sorry parade of Limp Bizkit wannabes. How hard can it be to just rip-off a famous song? Tyler Bate had that great Sledgehammer-like song, but they seldom do that stuff anymore. All we get is essentially stock music! The best themes going on are essentially those from the Ruthless Aggression Era. We occasionally get a banger like Roman's or Seth's, but those are rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.