Ridiculous quotes from WO.com columnists

[Resident Evil]

That's a pretty big difference. If wrestling went legit, it would become MMA. That doesn't mean it would still be wrestling. MMA is a game, and as with any game, it's defined by it's rules. It's rules, as you may or may not have noticed, are very different than pro wrestling's "rules". It's necessary for me to throw those quotation marks in there because pro wrestling is not a game, and therefore is not defined by rules. It's a genre of fiction. It belongs to an entirely different categorization of stuff. Like Law & Order and actual police work. Or MMA and The Wizard of Oz. Sure you can compare the two. There may even be real, valid comparisons, but that doesn't make them the same thing.

To the people saying that boxing is MMA or wrestling or whatever -- it's not because boxing is just combat where you "only" use your fists. Combat where you use "everything" is wrestling or MMA. Boxing is different though similar in some aspects.

 

The first line is what I'm saying. If wrestling went legit, it would become MMA.

 

The second line is what I disagree with. It would still be professional wrestling. What would professional wrestling turn into if it weren't fixed? MMA. So how does it suddenly not become professional wrestling? That's what I disagree with.

 

Nobody is saying they're the EXACT same thing. What is being said is that they're the same thing EXCEPT one is an exhibition and the other isn't. Besides the exhibition part, they're very similar and way more similar than the comparison of Wizard of Oz (nice comparison though as I'm familiar with that movie and what happened behind the scenes) to MMA or Law and Order to Police Work. There's a reason why fights on the TV screen aren't generally as compelling as a well done wrestling match. They're way more fiction like and feel more distant without even an attempt to pass if off as somewhat real even if they get how to actually put a fight together. Wrestling is a step closer to its reality form than Wizard of Oz is to MMA or TV cop work to actual police work.

 

Btw, I tend to use Star Trek TOS as a comparison to a well constructed wrestling match.

 

Edit -- Just for the record, Wizard of OZ to MMA is closer than Tv cops are to Police Work.

[S.L.L.]

That's a pretty big difference. If wrestling went legit, it would become MMA. That doesn't mean it would still be wrestling. MMA is a game, and as with any game, it's defined by it's rules. It's rules, as you may or may not have noticed, are very different than pro wrestling's "rules". It's necessary for me to throw those quotation marks in there because pro wrestling is not a game, and therefore is not defined by rules. It's a genre of fiction. It belongs to an entirely different categorization of stuff. Like Law & Order and actual police work. Or MMA and The Wizard of Oz. Sure you can compare the two. There may even be real, valid comparisons, but that doesn't make them the same thing.

To the people saying that boxing is MMA or wrestling or whatever -- it's not because boxing is just combat where you "only" use your fists. Combat where you use "everything" is wrestling or MMA. Boxing is different though similar in some aspects.

Combat where you use everything is street fighting or war.

 

Combat where you use everything within reason is MMA.

 

A genre of theater defined by it's focus on a fictional form of combat is wrestling.

 

Professional wrestling is not combat. It is a genre of fiction about combat. These are two very, very, very different things.

 

The second line is what I disagree with. It would still be professional wrestling. What would professional wrestling turn into if it weren't fixed? MMA. So how does it suddenly not become professional wrestling?

Because you dramatically changed something very crucial to it's definition as pro wrestling.

 

Let me put it to you this way. If you could see me right now, you could accurately describe me as a living human being. If you then produced a revolver and shot me through the head, you could probably accurately describe me as a dead body. You took a fundamental aspect of my first classification (being alive) and changed it rather drastically, much like taking a fundamental aspect of wrestling (it's a genre of fiction) and changing that. Would you apply the same logic in this situation and say that a living being and a lifeless corpse are the same thing, or do you agree with me that this is stupid?

 

While the above example may seem severe, keep in mind that it's actually a more direct comparison than pro wrestling and MMA. At least life and death belong to the same classification of things. MMA and pro wrestling are entirely different types of things. One is a form of legitimate combat, and one is a genre of fiction. It's like suggesting boxing and the stories of P.G. Wodehouse are the same thing. Or muay thai and "The Lord of the Rings". Fuck, there's a more direct comparison between MMA and video games about pro wrestling than there is between MMA and actual pro wrestling, just because they're both games.

 

But you can't change something crucial to the definition of something and expect it to be the same thing. In the original book of The Wizard of Oz, Dorothy wore silver slippers. In the movie, they became ruby slippers, because that would better highlight the use of Technicolor. Are silver and rubies the same thing? If you replaced the cast and crew of The Wizard of Oz with the cast and crew of Roadhouse, changed the setting to a bar in Jasper, Wyoming, changed the plot to something about a deeply philosophical bouncer helping take back a small town from a corrupt businessman, and changed the title of the movie to "Roadhouse", then it would be Roadhouse. Are The Wizard of Oz and Roadhouse the same movie? It doesn't work that way. You don't get to change the definition of things on a whim like that.

 

Nobody is saying they're the EXACT same thing. What is being said is that they're the same thing EXCEPT one is an exhibition and the other isn't. Besides the exhibition part, they're very similar and way more similar than the comparison of Wizard of Oz (nice comparison though as I'm familiar with that movie and what happened behind the scenes) to MMA or Law and Order to Police Work. There's a reason why fights on the TV screen aren't generally as compelling as a well done wrestling match. They're way more fiction like and feel more distant without even an attempt to pass if off as somewhat real even if they get how to actually put a fight together. Wrestling is a step closer to its reality form than Wizard of Oz is to MMA or TV cop work to actual police work.

No, it really, really isn't. Well, okay, more real than The Wizard of Oz, but not even close to reality, unless you're just living in a really fucked up place.

[tomk]

Two guys moving a piano down a flight of stair is a different activity than one guy dropping a piano on another guy down a flight of stairs. Is moving furniture with someone just the exhibition form of dropping furniture on someone?

 

Have you ever worked moving furniture?

 

So you and this other guy are carrying a piano/couch down a flight of stairs, with a supervisor and client watching you.

You and your partner cooperate carrying piano down the flight of stairs.

 

Sometimes one guy slacks and the other guy has to carry more of the weight. Sometimes you do things to punish the other guy for slacking.

 

Sometimes you will be paired with a kissup who will make a dramatic display of how hard he is working to either impress boss, prove worth to boss, or flirt with client. In response you can ignore these displays, help him flirt by playing role of slacker, or worry about your own job and make similar displays. Thoughout all this you must continue to cooperate.

 

Sometimes someone will fuck up and something will be dropped on you, you'll be slammed into a wall etc.

 

But the main point is that it is a physical task built on cooperation, there are competitive and theatrical elements built into it. But the nature of the task is cooperative. If two of you fail to cooperate-you fail as furniture movers.

 

 

Two guys moving a piano down a flight of stair is a different activity than one guy dropping a piano on another guy down a flight of stairs. They are not the same activity.

 

Pro-wrestling is built on two guys deliberately working together, cooperating to create the impression of a fight.

MMA is built on two guys deliberately working against each other in a fight.

 

If you deliberately fail to cooperate in a pro-wrestling performance---you are a bad pro-wrestler.

If you deliberately cooperate with opponent in an MMA event--you are bad MMA competitor.

 

They are completely different tasks. Pro-wrestling is far closer to piano moving than it is to MMA.

 

To the people saying that boxing is MMA or wrestling or whatever -- it's not because boxing is just combat where you "only" use your fists. Combat where you use "everything" is wrestling or MMA.

Yo don't use everything in MMA. IN UFC headbutts aren't allowed. You can't kick a downed opponent. Can't fish hook. Can't eye gouge. Can't rabbit punch. Can't hit opponet with a hammer.

 

MMA is a sport with rules about exactly what you can and cannot do. That's what makes it a sport.

[goodhelmet]

Dude, that reminds me of when the bell hammer found its way into the Manny Fernandez-Abdullah the Butcher Anything Goes-Sombrero on a Pole Match from Starrcade. I am waiting for Couture to pull that out of his hat.

[Loss]

It was actually the injuries line that made me think of Margaret Hamilton catching fire in a stunt gone wrong, and I went with "The Wizard of Oz" from that.

Margaret Hamilton, eh?

 

You know, Kevin Nash was trained by Jody Hamilton.

 

Therefore, wrestling is MMA.

[S.L.L.]

It was actually the injuries line that made me think of Margaret Hamilton catching fire in a stunt gone wrong, and I went with "The Wizard of Oz" from that.

Margaret Hamilton, eh?

 

You know, Kevin Nash was trained by Jody Hamilton.

 

Therefore, wrestling is MMA.

 

It all makes sense now!

 

The Hamilton family, in conjunction with Tex Rickard and Jack Dempsey, under the supervision of the reverse vampires, are forcing wrestling promoters to fix their matches in a fiendish plot to eliminate wrestling's identity as MMA. Which further reveals the most startling truth of all: MMA is NOT wrestling; wrestling is MMA! We're through the looking glass, here, people.

[Jingus]

It was actually the injuries line that made me think of Margaret Hamilton catching fire in a stunt gone wrong, and I went with "The Wizard of Oz" from that.

Margaret Hamilton, eh?

 

You know, Kevin Nash was trained by Jody Hamilton.

 

Therefore, wrestling is MMA.

You're missing the big picture here. Jody Hamilton's old tag partner was Tom Renesto. Slightly change the last name, and you get Ernest, which is a clear reference to Jim Varney's Ernest P. Worrell movies. For one thing, Ernest was clearly talking to an off-screen "Vern" Gagne the whole time, and Gagne was well known for emphasising the more realistic, dare I say, MMA-like aspect of pro wrestling. But that's not even the important part. You see, two of the Ernest movies were taped in the area where my mother grew up, and in fact her old house is in the background of a few shots of Ernest Scared Stupid (which mentions Wrestlemania BY NAME, ONE DEGREE OF SEPARATION). Meanwhile, Tom Renesto's younger son Tim Renesto eventually happened to work for the same indy company which I did the ring announcing for. One time, early in my career, after I refused to falsely announce that he had won the match which he had in fact just lost, Tim suddenly took me down with a double-leg, got the mount, and started Throwing Hands from above. It was my first in-ring beatdown, and was not called in advance, so clearly you can put all that together and it proves that Bush was behind 9/11, the number 23 is the secret constant ruling our universe, Great Khali is a skilled wrestler, the Illuminati are taking over the world, Michael Bay is the greatest director alive, and MMA = Wrestling.

[S.L.L.]

You're missing the big picture here. Jody Hamilton's old tag partner was Tom Renesto. Slightly change the last name, and you get Ernest, which is a clear reference to Jim Varney's Ernest P. Worrell movies. For one thing, Ernest was clearly talking to an off-screen "Vern" Gagne the whole time, and Gagne was well known for emphasising the more realistic, dare I say, MMA-like aspect of pro wrestling. But that's not even the important part. You see, two of the Ernest movies were taped in the area where my mother grew up, and in fact her old house is in the background of a few shots of Ernest Scared Stupid (which mentions Wrestlemania BY NAME, ONE DEGREE OF SEPARATION). Meanwhile, Tom Renesto's younger son Tim Renesto eventually happened to work for the same indy company which I did the ring announcing for. One time, early in my career, after I refused to falsely announce that he had won the match which he had in fact just lost, Tim suddenly took me down with a double-leg, got the mount, and started Throwing Hands from above. It was my first in-ring beatdown, and was not called in advance, so clearly you can put all that together and it proves that Bush was behind 9/11, the number 23 is the secret constant ruling our universe, Great Khali is a skilled wrestler, the Illuminati are taking over the world, Michael Bay is the greatest director alive, and MMA = Wrestling.

My God, it's so obvious now:

 

 

How could I have been so blind?

[Johnny Sorrow]

Could it be that the urban legend about the munchkin who hung himself inspired wrestling's most famous and talented munchkin to do himself in the same way???

Well, I thought this was funny as hell.

[Loss]

Could it be that the urban legend about the munchkin who hung himself inspired wrestling's most famous and talented munchkin to do himself in the same way???

I'm not sure how I missed that one the first time, but HA!

[ohtani's jacket]

I don't believe that MMA is wrestling, but there's a connection, at least where I am. If I go to a video rental store, MMA stuff is right next to the wrestling stuff, even in Champion. Wrestling magazines cover both. A large amount of Samurai TV is MMA. Wrestlers have done MMA and vice versa, and they're promoted by the same people. Most wrestling sites have, or attempted to have, separate MMA boards. There's certainly a crossover appeal. I can understand Dave covering it in the Observer. It's not wrestling, but it's closer to pro-stuff than amateur wrestling is.

[Bix]

http://www.wrestlingobserver.com/wo/news/h...t.asp?aID=22269

 

--Want to make mention that Sunday marks the 5th full year that Dan Wahlers has been doing regular WWE columns for us and we're really glad he's done so. He's got a column up today on the ten best matches in Wrestlemania history.

[Guest LShunter]

The Smackdown vs Raw 2008 rant was quite possibly the most retarded wrestling video game related thing I have ever read, and that's saying something. A close second in terms of relation to Benoit is somebody allegedly being "offended" that the crossface wasn't removed from Fire Pro Wrestling Returns.

[Bix]

http://www.wrestlingobserver.com/wo/news/h...t.asp?aID=22268

 

Bret sent Austin

careening into the railing, and Austin came up

bleeding profusely. The blood was literally squirting

out a hole in his temple pooling in buckets on the

floor. It was disgusting!

In honor of 5 terrible years, let's celebrate Dan Wahlers with this passage from his latest column, where he describes the image of a hole in the side of Steve Austin's head squirting blood.

 

Err.

 

[sek69]

Joe Babinsack is either full of it or functionally retarded.

 

This in particular:

 

I can’t, for the life of me, find out where it is on Comcast (Pittsburgh) without extensive searches on their web site, to the point of a Herculean effort.

 

And hey, I absolutely want to watch the show!

 

Is this my problem? Nope. It’s ROH’s. There should be a detailed listing on the site. There should be a matrix of where to go for every major cable system, for every major town.

 

If the PPV is on channel 407, how is someone going to find that? If its on a super-secret location, or an obscure menu on digital cable, or on a different location for different subscribers in the same town, let alone being different for different cities, then how does one spread the word?

Here in Pittsburgh, all first run PPV events (WWE, TNA, ROH, MMA, or boxing) are on channel 501. That "obscure menu on digital cable" would be the on screen guide that lists all the channels. Hell, there's only 3-5 PPV channels depending on where in town he lives at so it's not that hard to find.

 

There's only 3 explanations for this:

 

1. He's lying to make a point about ROH not advertising their PPVs better.

2. He's never ordered a PPV before and legit doesn't know what channel they are on.

3. He's retarded.

 

IMO all 3 seem equally likely.

[Strummer]

http://www.wrestlingobserver.com/wo/news/f...t.asp?aID=22383

 

Man who is this guy that does the ECW TV reports?

 

He is *beyond* awful and makes the site look amateurish

[Death From Above]

http://www.wrestlingobserver.com/wo/news/h...t.asp?aID=22268

 

Bret sent Austin

careening into the railing, and Austin came up

bleeding profusely. The blood was literally squirting

out a hole in his temple pooling in buckets on the

floor. It was disgusting!

In honor of 5 terrible years, let's celebrate Dan Wahlers with this passage from his latest column, where he describes the image of a hole in the side of Steve Austin's head squirting blood.

 

Err.

 

 

I'm pretty sure this is the best wrestling poem of all time.

 

I've also never really got the MMA = pro wrestling thing. But I can't be alone because I assume Antonio Inoki lost sight of that too before he sent Yuji Nagata hurtling towards his imminent death in PRIDE and there were a lot of people that figured out in advance this was a really, really foolish thing to do on any number of levels.

[Guest antonius block]

Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair . . . Five grown men cried in my living room last Sunday and this match was why.

I still get choked up thinking about it, and have been all day. People at work wondered why I looked like I was about to cry the whole day.

http://wrestlingobserver.com/wo/news/featu...t.asp?aID=22473

 

I have no problem with liking Flair/Michaels-- I thought Flair had a nice exit too. But it's almost like there's some sort of regular contest to see who can make the most excessive statement on their emotional connection to wrestling. If so, this has to take the round. Presumably it'll resume with the next WWE tribute show.

 

Does this phenomenon apply to other forms of entertainment too? Have I just not noticed?

[Jingus]

Oh yeah, but it's usually not the macho wrestling crowd. Get a bunch of teenage girls together and ask them about what songs and movies made them cry, and they'll probably talk for hours. I generally agree that it's not something you should really brag about, though.

 

On the flipside, honestly I'm not sure they're lying about the experience itself. I didn't cry during Flair/Michaels, but the finish made me come pretty close to it, and I'm not an emotional guy and literally can't remember the last time I cried about anything. And crying tends to be like yawning, it's often psychologically contagious within a group of people; in an emotional moment, if one guy starts sobbing, it's not unusual for his buddies to quickly follow suit.

[khawk20]

But it's almost like there's some sort of regular contest to see who can make the most excessive statement on their emotional connection to wrestling.

That's the spirit of message boards in general, in a nutshell...make the largest impact you can with your words so that the most people are affected by them. It turns into a game of one-upmanship, intentionally or not.

 

It's especially bad when the event in question is a death or retirement. to a degree I understand it. People come off a lot less stupid when they have time to compose their words and hit a send button, as opposed to talking face-to-face with another person. Message boards are places where you can get your point across even if you are a mushmouth.

 

The people to worry about are the ones that come off as retarded on the internet. large group, I know...but think about it, they actually have time to sit and compose their thoughts, review their writing, and then send it out to the masses. Imagine what comes out of their mouths in everyday conversation without all those filters in place?

 

Scary.

 

I don't know if it's better or worse on wrestling boards than other genres of, well, anything, but it certainly isn't exclusive to pro wres fan boards.

[Strummer]

Todd Martin does not know who Johnny Knoxville is and called him a D list celebrity (which no matter what you think of him is absolutely not true).

 

 

He has all the right not to like him or Jackass but that comment made him look more behind the times than Vince McMahon and he's only in his late 20s.

 

 

BTW, this was from his RAW report this week

[CodySave]

It's always interesting to read Martin's RAW reports to see what a.) went completely over his head or b.) important parts of the show he completely missed. I picture him being so into typing his notes, that with his head down, he misses two-three major events in each broadcast.

[jdw]

Todd Martin does not know who Johnny Knoxville is and called him a D list celebrity (which no matter what you think of him is absolutely not true).

 

 

He has all the right not to like him or Jackass but that comment made him look more behind the times than Vince McMahon and he's only in his late 20s.

I'm thinking Knoxvillie's career in Hollywood was going better than Rock's right up until the Game Plan. Hard to credit Rock for Get Smart - that was a Carell movie more.

 

Knoxville's two Jackass movies were also made on shoe strings and extremely profitable.

 

Not saying Knoxville is making more per movie than Rock is. But Game Plan really was a career turn around movie for Rock. Knoxville can do another Jackass and it will pull in $60-70M, which Rock didn't do on his own until making a Disney movie.

 

John

[jdw]

Note - I'm not knocking Rock. He mad, and is making, a great decision in going hollywood and dropping wrestling.

 

The knock is aimed at Martin. Shit... Knoxville was in one of Rock's movies.

 

 

John

[Marty]

I'm thinking Knoxvillie's career in Hollywood was going better than Rock's right up until the Game Plan. Hard to credit Rock for Get Smart - that was a Carell movie more.

 

Knoxville's two Jackass movies were also made on shoe strings and extremely profitable.

 

Not saying Knoxville is making more per movie than Rock is. But Game Plan really was a career turn around movie for Rock. Knoxville can do another Jackass and it will pull in $60-70M, which Rock didn't do on his own until making a Disney movie.

 

John

Not arguing with you on the overall point, John, as you're right on Knoxville's career versus Rock's, but Rock did lead The Scorpion King, which did in the same ballpark as the The Game Plan domestically, and was even better in foreign theatres too.

 

Like I said, you're right on the overall point, though. After The Scorpion King, though, any movies he was the lead in were in the $30-50 million range until he did The Game Plan.