El-P Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 What competition ? I mean, really. They only night where there was an actual competition, they got slaughtered. Now, the Rock and the Fox debut effect drew that number. I guess they are gonna have Austin next week and Taker the following week then Sting then Edge then... whoever is available and not too dead yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 Smackdown, The Good: - The set/stage. Really like the new look and the side-camera they utilized during entrances. Finding a new spot in buildings an alternate hard cam would arguably freshen up the TV product without needing absurdly "original" ideas. - The Rock was awesome and clearly tried to give Becky a bit of his shine. To what end I don't know given how the women were thrown out there later in the show, but there was a thought behind this. - Daniel Bryan on commentary. Always a bonus when it happens. Extra points for his authoritarian comment making the air on WWE TV. - Brock making the title matter again. Elimination Chamber and the Smackdown gauntlets earlier this year were fantastic, and Bran/Kofi was a legitimate low end MOTYC and one of the great Mania moments, but this was a title reign heading downhill ever since and gaining speed along the way. Brock's matches can still feel like the biggest thing in the company so hopefully that's the case going forward. - Cain Velasquez throwing strikes from the mount. He moves very well in and around the ring, and looked great raining down strikes on Brock. The Bad: Its umbrella time, because I'm now ready to rain all over the rest of the show. - The Women. The MSG tag was rough in spots but intense, well laid out and hot. This seemed like a version of that edited for time constraints, with the edits taking away everything that made the first one work. But keeping essentially the same finish for unknown reasons. I was genuinely excited for this match when it was announced, but it turns out they literally booked it just to parade them out and scream "THESE ARE OUR FEMALE SUPERSTARS.' I loved the Bayley heel turn and was patient with the slow pacing of development on that front since then (don't ask why I even bothered giving it more than a moment's thought), but the entire presentation of this match and the wrestlers was as though nothing ever happened or mattered. - The 8 Man tag team match and Lumberjacks. Jesus Fuck. Honestly, I was so sad watching this match and those lumberjacks. Hasn't anyone in the company ever heard that less is more? Where's Waldo doesn't work with stars . If you throw every single piece of shit you have against the wall, you've just got a wall covered in shit. Nothing at all stands out. How is your dedicated audience that's familiar with the wrestlers, their histories, personalities, feuds, ups and downs supposed to care about everyone blending together, much less any new or infrequent viewers you're hoping to retain? Why should *anyone* care about *anything* when there's a lot of clutter on the screen? The same point arguably holds for the women's match, though at least they stand out a bit because they're women on a show dominated by men. I'm not advocating for Orton, Zigger, AJ or anyone in the match. But pick somebody and try to paint them as somewhat special or worth paying attention to. - Tyson Fury. Are you fucking kidding me? How does this do anything but cut into any interest/heat for the KEY ANGLE on this show and going forward (Cain)? This is Mad Libs. For general audience purposes you can fill in the blank with boxing or MMA, it doesn't really matter. I think Cain and MMA mean more to the potential audience. If you disagree, make Fury the focus of an angle with Brock. If not, why is he there to water it down and distract from it, never mind take away creative efforts and television minutes from someone on the roster who may be part of a solid program 1, 3 or 6 months from now. If there's a positive to this (outside of an edict from Fox/ESPN that you're basically given no choice but to obey), please let me know. - Cain Velasquez's look. Why did he have to take his shirt off? Why did he have to wear a knee brace for the limited physicality we saw? None of this will matter if and when you get him over, but first impressions do matter and the first impression that much of the WWE UNIVERSE (strike me down now, please) got of Cain wasn't that of a devastating striker or incredible smooth and athletic heavyweight, but rather the guy with a guy who has the 930AM appointment for physical therapy on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Presentation matters. Act like it. On the bright side, none of this may matter next week when there's no Rock to take up 15-20 minutes, (maybe) no shoehorning in half the roster just to scream WE HAVE STARS and for all we know there may be no Cain/Fury after the next Blood Money show. On the other hand, this felt on the whole incredibly depressing. Yet I'll be there on Sunday, Monday, Wednesday and next Friday, subject to DVRing things. But what about anyone who hasn't been watching for over 20 years? Why the fuck would they want to do this again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 4 million is impressive, for sure, but as others said, it is questionable whether that number will stay consistent. Personally, from the segments I did see, I would be pretty concerned if I was FOX. You're not going to have The Rock every week. AFAIK, Brock Lesnar is still not a weekly or even monthly guarantee. Hell, if the brand split means anything, you're not going to have Braun Strowman or Becky Lynch every week and, while I doubt its "for reals," the one McMahon you have just got retired on your premier episode. So, there's the New Day (whose leader you just decimated), Roman Reigns and Daniel Bryan (who are kinda quietly being great slightly out of the spotlight), and...uh...Orton? Is the Miz on RAW or SD? Now that Kevin Owens is finally out of the feud with Shane (maybe?), does he matter or still not? Aleister Black is still a thing right? Just seems very unlikely that this roster, really any roster of full-time WWE guys, is going to consistently maintain 3+ million viewers. Then again the net is much wider on broadcast TV and there's not much competition on Friday nights. Still, if even one other network actually tried to come up with counter-programming, the WWE would be in trouble. I'm not sure what that sports-based counter-programming would even be that would air on Fridays all year round (some sort of mix of college football/basketball?), but that's also why the WWE got such a great deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 The best thing WWE could have done was get the title off of Kofi & they did that. So kudos there. I know there's some fans that don't like the way that it happened but Kofi just wasn't working on top. He wasn't believable. He was too cornball. If they're going for a larger, bigger audience AND want that sports feel, putting it on Brock was the right way to go. Even if people on Squared Circle or Twitter or wherever say they're tired of Brock. Brock makes people pay attention. People don't sit on their hands quiet when Brock is around. THAT'S the difference. So that was the right call. The new set looks great. The Rock & that opening segment was really good too. Also, Corbin held his own! I don't know if the testicles parts were ad-libbed or not but Becky saying hers would be bigger & then Baron saying he's perfectly adequate were great. I don't think the STD chant will catch-on but it's funny that Rock always tries to do that. The first match on NXT when they moved to USA was a women's 4-way. The first match when Smackdown moved to FOX was a women's tag team match. I have to disagree with some of the posters here, I thought they did a good job of building to the PPV on Sunday with this show. They showed & introduced the new audience to Becky, Sasha, Bayley, Charlotte, The Fiend, & Seth. They also blew off KO/Shane. So I thought they did decent there. The commentary was better too. The only thing I didn't really enjoy was the new AC/DC intro song. It always feels exceptionally dated because anything that is related to AC/DC is going to seem dated in 2019. But I guess that sort of fits right in with FOX as their NFL show on Sunday always feels super dated too. Admittedly, they don't have a lot of matches set-up for HiaC but the matches they do have, they used TV time to tell people they were coming & were happening. I thought it was a pretty good show - better than normal - and they got a good number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 13 hours ago, C.S. said: Seriously though, if you step out of the self-masturbatory (at times) PWO GWE bubble, you’ll find that there are a lot more Mamma Mia-niacs than not. I strongly disagree. I've seen other Pro Wrestling messageboards where people can't stand him as well, and on Twitter the reaction to him seems to be 50/50 at best. And you don't even want to know what most MMA fans think of him. In that case, I'd say it's about 90% against him. It's not like we all got together here at PWO and decided "hey, let's hate on poor old Mauro for no reason at all." If the general consensus around here is that he's not a good commentator, then that is what it is. I have no earthly idea what the hell the GWE poll would have to do with that, either. It's fine if you like him, but objectively you have to see how constant shouting, interrupting, and pointless alliteration and pop culture references might not be something everybody will enjoy. Different strokes for different folks, right? Hell, @KawadaSmile actually thinks Michael Cole is a good commentator. You know what they say about opinions...they're like assholes - everybody has one. I could scour other messageboards and twitter etc. looking for quotes from random people saying they hate Mauro Ranallo, but what would be the point of that? It's not like I'm going to convince anybody else that he sucks, any more than you're going to convince anybody that he doesn't. But let's say you're right. Let's say that outside PWO, everybody thinks Mauro Ranallo is the second coming of Gordon Solie. What then? If Nickelback and the Kardashians have taught us anything, it's that just because a lot of people might like something, that doesn't mean it's actually good. Popularity has never been indicative of quality. Hell, up until recently Avatar was the #1 grossing movie of all time, and yet I personally have never actually met anybody who even liked that movie. Sorry, C.S. but you could show me a video of Terry Funk himself saying he thought Mauro was a great play-by-play guy, and it wouldn't change my opinion of him one bit. I'd still think he's one of the worst Pro Wrestling commentators I've ever heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted October 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, The Thread Killer said: Hell, @KawadaSmile actually thinks Michael Cole is a good commentator. You know what they say about opinions...they're like assholes - everybody has one. And even I acknowledge the dude's faults, too! (BTW he seemed REALLY excited for SmackDown last night. Good for him, his duo with Corey was good, too!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Rock Posted October 5, 2019 Report Share Posted October 5, 2019 I really wish they would just stick with two-person booths. Put Tom and Corey on one show and Cole and Nigel on the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Mauro's been way more bearable the last two weeks of NXT, I'm willing to chalk it up to him being too amped up for the USA debut. Cole is very good at the style WWE wants their announcers to do, and a two man booth in this company will always be better than a three man booth. Also being paired with Cole will keep Corey from being too.....Corey since he's not going to get too snarky at at someone he views as a mentor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordi Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 10 hours ago, Blehschmidt said: Why are we discussing WWE like there was any thought put into this beyond hotshot booking to A) Try and pop a big number for the Fox debut, and B.) Stick it to AEW This company is so all over the place at this point they can barely build a cohesive angle for 2 weeks. 10 hours ago, Robert S said: I just saw that tomorrow is Hell in a Cell and right now there are only four matches announced so far. Did the "season premieres" take that much attention by the creative team that they forgot that they have a "PPV" (Network special or whatever you want to call it) coming up? Yep. It really seems like a massive shift from the days when "building to a PPV" was the WWE business model. Now they get so much oil/blood and TV money, it seems like the PPVs are a total afterthought outside of RR/WM. I'd assume that the thinking is that having PPVs is a way to draw people into paying for the network, and actually selling PPV buys on cable is a nothing deal these days. So, hotshot booking to draw viewers to TV is something that makes sense again, in that model...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 7 hours ago, The Thread Killer said: I strongly disagree. I've seen other Pro Wrestling messageboards where people can't stand him as well, and on Twitter the reaction to him seems to be 50/50 at best. And you don't even want to know what most MMA fans think of him. In that case, I'd say it's about 90% against him. It's not like we all got together here at PWO and decided "hey, let's hate on poor old Mauro for no reason at all." If the general consensus around here is that he's not a good commentator, then that is what it is. I have no earthly idea what the hell the GWE poll would have to do with that, either. It's fine if you like him, but objectively you have to see how constant shouting, interrupting, and pointless alliteration and pop culture references might not be something everybody will enjoy. Different strokes for different folks, right? Hell, @KawadaSmile actually thinks Michael Cole is a good commentator. You know what they say about opinions...they're like assholes - everybody has one. I could scour other messageboards and twitter etc. looking for quotes from random people saying they hate Mauro Ranallo, but what would be the point of that? It's not like I'm going to convince anybody else that he sucks, any more than you're going to convince anybody that he doesn't. But let's say you're right. Let's say that outside PWO, everybody thinks Mauro Ranallo is the second coming of Gordon Solie. What then? If Nickelback and the Kardashians have taught us anything, it's that just because a lot of people might like something, that doesn't mean it's actually good. Popularity has never been indicative of quality. Hell, up until recently Avatar was the #1 grossing movie of all time, and yet I personally have never actually met anybody who even liked that movie. Sorry, C.S. but you could show me a video of Terry Funk himself saying he thought Mauro was a great play-by-play guy, and it wouldn't change my opinion of him one bit. I'd still think he's one of the worst Pro Wrestling commentators I've ever heard. My opinion: Mauro is the best commentator working today and this generation's J.R. or Gordon Solie (not in style, which is wildly different across all three of those examples, but in quality). I could scour Twitter, other boards, etc. looking for positive Mauro comments. But like you said, that would be a colossal waste of time. Agreed about popularity not being an indicator of quality, but it really feels like PWO and a couple of other remote corners of the wrestling web go out of their way to be contrarian at times. (Yes, I realize this is rich coming from the anti-Asuka guy.) I have no idea what MMA fans think of him, but isn't he employed by multiple other companies to commentate multiple other sports? Dude must doing something right. I do think Mauro would enhance this Brock-Fake Festus feud considerably because of his sports background - certainly more than Cole and Graves can. Then again, if it's just a thing for the next Bloody Money show, as rumored, it doesn't matter who's commentating it. If that is in fact the case, it makes Kofi's pointless squash loss even more infuriating. Speaking of Avatar, has a movie that popular ever been forgotten as quickly as that one has? It was basically erased from everyone's collective consciousness after about a year, despite breaking box office records and even being nominated for Best Picture. There are a boatload of sequels on the way, but zero buzz or anticipation. It's the weirdest thing. I thought the movie was...okay. Really cool experience in 3D (much like going to a live Raw even in this era is probably still fun for the experience) but pretty pedestrian otherwise. I will never not cringe at "unobtainium" somehow making it into the final script. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 What a uniquely frustrating hill to choose to die on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Growing up watching legit tough-as-nails men like Terry Funk & Harley Race, it's pretty crazy to see the types of personalities that are within the industry & even fawned over nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 The audience chanting "Mamma Mia" on NXT is another reason to can't stand Mauro. I'm not big into criticizing chants, but this one is just the fucking worst. Like, you're gonna emphasize the fucking announcer's gimmicks now ? Someone mention Mauro being basically an announcer for the meme culture, and I totally agree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Listening to Meltzer on the Observer radio, the Roman match remained flat as far as ratings are concerned, and the Rollins match lost viewers. Some of it was inevitable, since the show opened with Rock and that was always going to be the highest rated segment no matter what, but it is telling that the two biggest stars/faces of the company are pretty much non-factors when it comes to drawing viewers. Seth, from what I have read, actually drives viewers away from his segments and matches consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 1 hour ago, MoS said: Listening to Meltzer on the Observer radio, the Roman match remained flat as far as ratings are concerned, and the Rollins match lost viewers. Some of it was inevitable, since the show opened with Rock and that was always going to be the highest rated segment no matter what, but it is telling that the two biggest stars/faces of the company are pretty much non-factors when it comes to drawing viewers. Seth, from what I have read, actually drives viewers away from his segments and matches consistently. I think being a net neutral isn't a bad thing though. Sometimes you need a guy that you can give the ball to that will keep things steady. Rollins on the other hand has been a proven negative all the way back to RoH. He's only getting the repeated chances because he's a HHH pet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 22 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: I think being a net neutral isn't a bad thing though. Sometimes you need a guy that you can give the ball to that will keep things steady. Rollins on the other hand has been a proven negative all the way back to RoH. He's only getting the repeated chances because he's a HHH pet. I get your point about net neutral not being bad. However, when Reigns had initially started getting a main event push, mixed reactions to him were countered with the example of John Cena, and the fact that he sold merchandise. I am sure the merchandise argument still stands today - although given how pushed he is and how long he has been a main event wrestler, he should be selling a lot of merchandise - but Cena was a proper draw who would get a lot of fans to tune into his segments and buy tickets for his matches. Reigns, for whatever reason, has not come close to it. It's certainly an indictment of WWE's general creative direction and booking over the last 5 years or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, MoS said: I get your point about net neutral not being bad. However, when Reigns had initially started getting a main event push, mixed reactions to him were countered with the example of John Cena, and the fact that he sold merchandise. I am sure the merchandise argument still stands today - although given how pushed he is and how long he has been a main event wrestler, he should be selling a lot of merchandise - but Cena was a proper draw who would get a lot of fans to tune into his segments and buy tickets for his matches. Reigns, for whatever reason, has not come close to it. It's certainly an indictment of WWE's general creative direction and booking over the last 5 years or so. Oh yeah. I think Reigns is in that Orton territory of he should be a much bigger deal for all the time and energy they put into him. Especially all the hot feuds like Lesnar/Joe they just ignored because everything was about Roman for the last 5 years. The funny thing, if they had used him like they currently are for a couple of years before making him the guy, I bet the fans would have accepted him more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 17 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: Oh yeah. I think Reigns is in that Orton territory of he should be a much bigger deal for all the time and energy they put into him. Especially all the hot feuds like Lesnar/Joe they just ignored because everything was about Roman for the last 5 years. The funny thing, if they had used him like they currently are for a couple of years before making him the guy, I bet the fans would have accepted him more. Or just gave him the fucking title all the way back in 2015 when they wanted to in the first place instead of second guessing themselves over and over and wasting 3 years of booking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 8 hours ago, Matt D said: What a uniquely frustrating hill to choose to die on. No more so than Big John Studd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 One time when he seemed finally over the hump was after Vince killed himself to get him over, and he was booked like a badass and fans started cheering for him, and his title win was welcomed. Then Hunter came back and won the Royal Rumble to become champ, and of course Reigns had to chase the almighty God-King, where the focus was on Hunter so he could have his WM main event epic, and even though Reigns won, we were back to square one. It's amazing how a promotion built on the back of badass babyfaces has forgotten how to book badass babyfaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Isn't Roman a proven merch seller? I seem to recall that being a talking point that even if he doesn't pop huge ratings he at least moves the needle in other ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, sek69 said: Isn't Roman a proven merch seller? I seem to recall that being a talking point that even if he doesn't pop huge ratings he at least moves the needle in other ways. I mean they put him at halftime of the NFL game on Thursday night with the big time guys. Clearly on a national scale he is on of the bigger guys that is a full timer on the roster. If we are using stupid Meltzer analytics like 'NOBODY REACTED TO HIM AT THE MOVIE THEATER. HE ISN'T POPULAR" then there isn't going to much to convince those people ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 If Meltzer's word is being used to gauge SD's quarter-hour breakdowns, he's also mentioned Reigns increasing viewership when on RAW using the same metrics. He never loses numbers for them. Plus, Roman was sent back to RAW with the Wildcard Rule because Rollins apparently tanked the ratings for a couple of weeks. Roman seemed to stabilize them. Reigns also gets them legit mainstream publicity. As @hammerva said, he was on Thursday Night Football. He also did some online interviews for GQ and Vanity Fair. They just announced a partnership with Leukemia & Lymphoma Society USA, and Roman is the face for that. They're trying to build Becky Lynch to that level and it's funny to think she's taken her fiancé's spot in that regard. But it's not a surprise. Everyone else--Roman, Becky, Charlotte--always look professional when doing media. Rollins dresses like a kid being forced to play nice with his family for Thanksgiving dinner, and he still somehow manages to wear his usual skinny jeans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Dave said Roman's segment on SD lost viewers this week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 1 hour ago, NintendoLogic said: No more so than Big John Studd. Man, I wish I had the time to even take a flesh wound on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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