rovert Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Brock attack is the best finish though it won't happen. Second best option - which is dog shit - is probably some weird situation where Punk gets out of the cage and doesn't come back. I'm thinking he could hit a GTS on the ref to save himself and then when they try and get a new ref in he splits. It's horrible, but arguably a better option than a (clean) loss for either guy. Actually Cena hiding under the ring and turning on Ryback would be an awesome WTF, though it's borderline Russo-ey and probably unwise. The WWE internal logic breaking idea of Ziggler's Money at the Bank cash in on Punk's belt is also an opinion. As is Ryback getting attacked like what happened when Punk got Punt kicked by Randy Orton at Unforgiven 2008 or Sabu at December to Dismember. Then being repalced by Team Hell No (Bryan & Kane) as likely Rey is going to miss the PPV as he has lost 16lbs due to what seems to be a bacterial infection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Heh, maybe they can have Heyman do something sneaky with the contract to make it an old-school WWF-style cage match, where you only win by escaping. You could have Punk win that in a lot of different ways while taking a shit kicking, and without either guy having to be pinned or submit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 - One idea that's been rumored to have been tossed around is having Brock Lesnar come out and cost Ryback the match. The issue there is that it would possibly waste a date with Lesnar and the revenge Triple H is expected to put on Lesnar as well. WWE is probably going to come up with multiple ideas for the finish in the coming week. Yea using Brock to get over a new talent would be such a waste. I would bet every single dollar I have that Brock costing Ryback HIAC leading to Lesnar vs. Ryback would be a hotter match than HHH vs. Lesnar II. You know that feud that fans were so into they mockingly chanted "You Tapped Out" to HHH when he was pretending to consider retirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 - One idea that's been rumored to have been tossed around is having Brock Lesnar come out and cost Ryback the match. The issue there is that it would possibly waste a date with Lesnar and the revenge Triple H is expected to put on Lesnar as well. WWE is probably going to come up with multiple ideas for the finish in the coming week. Yea using Brock to get over a new talent would be such a waste. I would bet every single dollar I have that Brock costing Ryback HIAC leading to Lesnar vs. Ryback would be a hotter match than HHH vs. Lesnar II. You know that feud that fans were so into they mockingly chanted "You Tapped Out" to HHH when he was pretending to consider retirement. I welcome a HHH/Lesnar rematch. If nothing else, it should give us plenty of Shawn Michaels acting worried. That's always gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Aren't they rumored to want Brock back after this contract is up? They can always have HHH get his revenge in the future, not that it matters for anything but his own edification anyway Brock costing Ryback the match to build a program between them is clearly the best, really the only smart way to book this, but obviously the internal politics make it less likely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I feel like at this point, the best move would be just to take Punk-Ryback out of the cell. Have Punk say that he agreed to wrestle Cena in a cell, not Ryback, and Heyman will sue if they don't change it. Then since they need a Hell in a Cell match, Sheamus-Show now gets that stip. I know the Sheamus-Show program is supposed to last months (at least I assume it is, Smackdown title feuds always do) and making the first match a cell match would make their subsequent matches hard to follow but they're moving the title onto Ziggler soon anyway, aren't they? Punk-Ryback, now a normal match, would end in a DQ due to Lesnar interference. Sure it would be a fuck finish but the fans would be happy enough for the surprise Brock appearance that they wouldn't mind. Then Survivor Series is Punk/Brock vs Ryback/Cena (assuming Cena is ready) and they can use the finish of that match to lead back to Cena-Punk for the TLC show. I understand the problems with changing the main event of a PPV the week before but the HITC show usually bombs anyway. I have a feeling they're not going to do this event next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Guessing they have Big Show come out from under the ring instead of Brock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Bah, I say just have Punk pin Ryback. Something like Ryback is on top kicking his ass, Punk throws powder in his eyes, quick roll up, hook the tights & feet on the ropes. Post match Punk runs for the hills as Ryback recovers quickly. Ryback kills the ref or smashes the door or drops Heyman or whatever to get some heat back & next night on RAW he kills a billion jobbers. Punk keeps the belt, Ryback will still be super over, problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Scoot still seems to be fixated on the "Scott Steiner was going to get the Jesus push from 91-94" tagline. I've never heard anyone confirm that and Scott seems convinced that Steiner would have been the next huge singles star which from the perspective of a fan during that time period is certainly questionable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Scott once claimed that Dusty wanted to put the title on Steiner at Clash XIV and that Flair actually signed off on it, which was one of the very few times that both of them agreed on something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Who actually got that push then? Sting? Ron Simmons? Would anyone argue that Ron Simmons was a bigger star than Scott Steiner in 1991? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 El Gigante? Bobby Eaton? Luger. Sort of. In Oct 91 Simmons was bigger then Steiner since Scott had been out for the entire summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Not that anyone was particularly big in WCW at that point. Until Nash booking and Russo booking found lower places to go, 1991 WCW was really rock bottom for the group, especially in the months immediately after Flair left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Not that anyone was particularly big in WCW at that point. Until Nash booking and Russo booking found lower places to go, 1991 WCW was really rock bottom for the group, especially in the months immediately after Flair left. I agree the months after Flair left were pretty dreadfull, but I find the summer of 1993 much worse. God, the Colossal Kongs, Ice Train and the Equalizer are showing up. Soon the Shockmaster will debut. Roma is a Horseman and Flair is boring. The TV sucks, the angles suck (Johnny B. Badd vs Max Paynne, Yoshi Kwan getting Cactus' magic bag, Rick Rude teaming up with the freaking Equalizer !), thankfully you got a fun match here and there, but nothing, not even the Summer of 1990 (which was also terrible) has been such a drag to go through until that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Once Luger won the belt they ran Lex vs Eaton and Big Josh for a few weeks though neither was pushed on TV at all. Then they switched to Lex vs Barry or Simmons, with the occasional tag matches with Lex + Hughes vs Barry + Simmons with Zenk as the guest ref (there was a mini angle where they took out Zenk for a while) and even Lex vs Zenk. Right after Halloween Havoc they ran some spots vs Zenk, Pillman or Kazmier (the latter of which had at least a bit TV build). The next major program however, was vs Rick Steiner at the clash. The months after Flair left still had a bunch of good TV matches with the Enforcers, the York Foundation, Austin, Cactus, etc vs Windham, Pillman, Eaton, Rhodes, Borne, Pistols, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 The months after Flair left still had a bunch of good TV matches with the Enforcers, the York Foundation, Austin, Cactus, etc vs Windham, Pillman, Eaton, Rhodes, Borne, Pistols, etc. Yep. The booking as a whole and the main event scene was totally fucked up, but the lower undercard with Austin/Dustin and the York Foundation stuff mainly was the saving grace. You don't get that in 1993. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 El-P, seen in context, how badly did the heel turn affect Luger during that run? I remember it's one of the most awkward turns ever ever, he's just beaten Windham for the belt, what should be his crowning moment is basically torpedoed by Harley Race randomly coming down to the ring. Crowd doesn't know what the fuck to do, and it didn't help that they spent the whole match chanting "WE WANT FLAIR". But I haven't seen the TV before and after. Are there any positives to draw from it at all or was it the clusterfuck it looks on Bash 91? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Not El-P, but you really shouldn't underestimate how over Lex was in early 1991. He was very over as a face. As for the cage match itself, I find it fun because it's the most heatless cage match you could imagine. It basically becomes a prop for them to steady themselves on the top rope with. What it really reminds me of is WWE-PG cage matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Scott once claimed that Dusty wanted to put the title on Steiner at Clash XIV and that Flair actually signed off on it, which was one of the very few times that both of them agreed on something. This would be highly unlikely. Flair has just got the belt back. My recollection was more that the match was a "tryout" to see if Scott could work a strong singles match on top. If he did, then he would be pushed. The match wasn't well received, and that was generally it for Scott's singles push. Also: * it's probably worthwhile to look up when the NJPW/WCW Starrcade show was agreed to Pretty sure NJPW knew that it would be Flair-Fujinami, and Steiner-Fujinami never would have been made. * recall this was the year where Flair was insane to get a contract extension I'm not sure after the unhappy 1990 year he had (where he quit the book, refused to job the title to Lex, and Sting had the belt), that a couple of weeks after getting the belt and the top spot back that he'd be happy to job it instantly to Scott... without that extension that he later was fighting for as the price to job to Lex. My guess is that the WON in the era could clear things up. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Found the exact quote from his review of that show. The story behind the match, which I’ve told before, is that Steiner was in fact being offered the title on a silver platter by both Flair & Dusty, which is one of the few times in history where both men were unanimous in wanting the title to pass to the same guy. However, Scott didn’t want to break up the team and refused the title, rightly suspecting that they were only keeping his brother around to humor him. Shortly after this, Scott suffered what was almost a career-ending arm injury, and it took him 9 years to make it back to a level where he was a legitimate contender for the World title again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 That is a load since Rick was really over and would have had a good midcard spot regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 El-P, seen in context, how badly did the heel turn affect Luger during that run? I remember it's one of the most awkward turns ever ever, he's just beaten Windham for the belt, what should be his crowning moment is basically torpedoed by Harley Race randomly coming down to the ring. Crowd doesn't know what the fuck to do, and it didn't help that they spent the whole match chanting "WE WANT FLAIR". It was basically what Matt said, the most heatless cage match ever. Remember too that Windham was a heel feuding with Brian Pillman at the time, and in the cage match he's all of a sudden working like a dull babyface, as is Luger. So it was a failed double-turn. Luger does get some heat eventually, but it really hurt him and his first reign. luger was crazy over with WCW crowds up to that point, especially in 89 and 90, either as a heel or a face. He was the only one that did really good business with Flair on top during that period. And he was also quite the trooper and hard worker until I'd say the early 91, and much better than Sting up to that point. The way he had to turn again to get that belt in a heatless match against a heel turning face for no reason and without anything to it really undermined Luger, and it showed in the last months of his WCW stint. He's not as over as he was, and doesn't work as hard as he used too. Doesn't help that his first big program was against Simmons, who was not ready (well, he never was) to work on a main event level, although their match at Halloween Havoc is better than it looks on paper. Luger would leave just a few months after (by early 92 he was WWF, through WBF, bound and would jack himself up to ridiculous degrees and not appear on TV at all before dropping the belt to Sting). To me it really killed Luger's motivation and a part of his aura. He would regain it when he would come back fresh on the first Nitro, as WCW crowds did love Luger. But I haven't seen the TV before and after. Are there any positives to draw from it at all or was it the clusterfuck it looks on Bash 91? No, it was a total clusterfuck, and the TV following it was pretty dreadfull. Only the low undercard with Austin/Dustin and the York Foundation was fun. The Simmons/Luger program wasn't good (usual race card shit) and took forever. WCW began to be interesting again and get a sense of direction back only with Halloween Havoc and the arrival of Rick Rude, which would set Sting on fire, and the whole Danregous Alliance angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 They should have had Lex cut a promo burying Flair, calling him a coward and had Barry come out to defend him, if they were dead set on the heel turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I just checked the Observer from the week of the Steiner-Flair Clash and there's no mention of Scott having been planned to win or offered the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 SKeith full of it... what a surprise! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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