Comments that don't warrant a thread 2010-2011

[Phil Schneider]

Which black wrestlers have I said 'strangely negative things' about except Scorpio? And my 'virulent racism' amounted to no more than three or four posts as a young teenager that were subsequently blown up out of proportion by a few IWC stalwarts, mostly from DVDVR; people like yourself who I seem to remember at one stage accusing numerous people of only not liking Mark Henry because he was a 'fat, sweaty black man' or something equally as poetic, which questions whether it's possible in your psyche to dislike a coloured wrestler without demonstrating racist undertones. As for 'not explaining how you got over it' - what do you want, a ten page thesis on how I was converted on wrestling sites I visit maybe twice a year? Opinions slowly morph over time, and usually its unexplainable. It isn't like I suddenly read 'To Kill A Mockingbird' and had an epiphany. I simply grew up.

 

The darker implications of that particular episode was that four or five people, most notably you and the blessed Phil Schneider, men in their mid-late twenties with websites and seemingly busy lives, spent a month chasing a fifteen year old boy around the internet so they could castigate him for a few ignorant political statements he made. It says a lot about the state of your respective lives. What was most bizarre was the several others on Smarkschoice at the time making equally offensive statements; it was only the young teenager you pursued. Without wanting to sound like Resident Evil, that possibly indicates a desire to put down the easiest, youngest target (a form of bullying) - probably as an attempt to counteract the torment endured in your own lives and youths when you yourselves were the victims of abuse.

 

I'm simply curious as to why nobody has mentioned it after 2005 except you, Schneider and the other dude that runs DVDVR whose name escapes me. Why are you so obsessed? Why do you care so much? Why does no other person care enough to ever bring it up?

 

As a rule when you start a statement with "Without wanting to sound like Resident Evil", it is probably best to just not write what you were thinking about.

[anarchistxx]

Still you didn't answer any of my questions like;

 

- Why did you spend a month following a fifteen year old boy whose opinions you loathed around the internet?

- Why did you not pursue the other people who stated my opinions equally?

- Why is it only you and Bix who ever bring it up?

- Which black wrestlers other than Scorpio have I unfairly criticised?

- Why are you so obsessed that every time I post you rush to find out what I'm saying?

- What was your reaction when the other nine or ten posts I made in the last couple of days contained no negative comments towards black wrestlers?

 

For the record, Jay Lethal was my favourite wrestler for months in 2006. Similarly, it's OK to dislike a black wrestler without being screamed at as a racist - a concept that hasn't permeated the head of Bix especially, who throws the race card around like it's a frisbee.

[Victator]

They would have not been given a chance at all during that time. Wrestling didn't matter,

If you could do cool looking power shit they would find a place for you. Not like the Acolytes and Hardyz had catch phrases.

 

Hardys were young dudes coming off from ladders. Acolytes were already veterans in WWF at this point, Ron Simmons had been a fixture in US wrestling for more than a decade, and Bradshaw was an office ass-kisser. Two past their prime guys from All Japan wouldn't have cut it. Look what they did to Vader in 1998.

 

Well they started the shit with Vader after he gave his notice. Not that it made sense to bury a guy you want to get your young guys over. But up to his surgery they were actually doing a great job booking him. The angle with Kane injuring him was really well done and they got over what a huge deal it was to injure Vader.

 

But anyway they did botch up Dr.Death and if you can't book Dr.death right then Furnas and Kraffat are in trouble.

[jdw]

Another problem is that WWF introduced tham as faces, and Kroffat has zero face charisma and can't do face-in-peril.

There are times where Kroffat worked face in peril well. I'm recalling a title match with Fuchi in 1991 where he was coming back from a knee injury, Fuchi destroyed the knee, and Kroffat sold the fuck out of it.

 

He was better as a dick heel, and not consistently great as a face or face in peril, but I do think there were times in AJPW where he pulled it off.

 

John

[El-P]

Another problem is that WWF introduced tham as faces, and Kroffat has zero face charisma and can't do face-in-peril.

There are times where Kroffat worked face in peril well. I'm recalling a title match with Fuchi in 1991 where he was coming back from a knee injury, Fuchi destroyed the knee, and Kroffat sold the fuck out of it.

 

Oh, I remember that particular match. It had escaped my memories.

 

He was better as a dick heel, and not consistently great as a face or face in peril, but I do think there were times in AJPW where he pulled it off.

 

John

In front of a japanese audience yeah, but is that the same kind of "face in peril" work that would have been needed in WWF in the 90's ?

 

And now that I think of it, why in the hell did they renamed him Phil Lafon ? Dan Kroffat is a kick ass name for a wrestler, and sounds much better I guess to an american ears than the über-French-it-can-only-be-from-quebec Phil Lafon.

Really, the only truly French sounding names that have been very over in the last 15 years are Benoit obviously, and to an extent Lesnar who sounds quite French too. Well, there's *that* guy too, but I doubt he would have the same career in WWE if he went by his birth name, which is as French as could be.

[Phil Schneider]

Still you didn't answer any of my questions like;

 

- Why did you spend a month following a fifteen year old boy whose opinions you loathed around the internet?

- Why did you not pursue the other people who stated my opinions equally?

- Why is it only you and Bix who ever bring it up?

- Which black wrestlers other than Scorpio have I unfairly criticised?

- Why are you so obsessed that every time I post you rush to find out what I'm saying?

- What was your reaction when the other nine or ten posts I made in the last couple of days contained no negative comments towards black wrestlers?

 

For the record, Jay Lethal was my favourite wrestler for months in 2006. Similarly, it's OK to dislike a black wrestler without being screamed at as a racist - a concept that hasn't permeated the head of Bix especially, who throws the race card around like it's a frisbee.

It is true that it is OK to dislike a black wrestler without being racist. However when you are a racist, it calls into question the reasons you dislike a black wrestler. You are a racist, you don't believe the holocaust happened, you believe that black people are subhuman leeches on society. These are all things you have said, and in all of your responses since then you never have said "I was wrong, I was a deluded idiot who celebrated some of the most vile and harmful views in human history." Instead you have cast your self as the victim of bullies, picking on the poor little racist for just stating his views. "I was just trying to say the Holocaust didn't happen, and then you all picked on me, why do you have to be so bigoted against bigots?"

 

I love the idea that everyone is obsessed. You amuse me, the same way Resident Evil or Chikarafan Dan or Beast amuses me, kind of a "look at this loony shit posting stupid things on the internet, Let me kick the nest a bit and watch the bees fly." I am killing some time in between working nest kicking. I imagine that Bix, Tomk, SLL and I may take shots at you more then other people, because as Jews we maybe a little more sensitive to Holocaust denial then gentiles, maybe it is because we enjoy trolling you because we want to ground up your bones to make matzo with. One of the two probably.

[anarchistxx]

You are a racist, you don't believe the holocaust happened, you believe that black people are subhuman leeches on society. These are all things you have said, and in all of your responses since then you never have said "I was wrong, I was a deluded idiot who celebrated some of the most vile and harmful views in human history.

What evidence do you deduce this from, other than the four or five posts I made at the time in the heat of a political argument? I was a racist at the time; I was fifteen, the phase lasted a few months. Subsequently I apologised and assured people my views had changed, so on that front you are constructing a fabrication. Go back through the posts on here if you don't believe me. I shouldn't have to footnote every reply thereafter with assurances to the board that I have changed my opinions - for a start, no one gives a shit except for you and Bix. Nobody wants to hear about it - the whole point of this board was that it was solely about Wrestling, not about off topic, or politics, or petty internet disputes. The only people who ever bring it up are you and Bix.

 

I love the idea that everyone is obsessed. You amuse me, the same way Resident Evil or Chikarafan Dan or Beast amuses me, kind of a "look at this loony shit posting stupid things on the internet, Let me kick the nest a bit and watch the bees fly." I am killing some time in between working nest kicking.

Care to produce these mountains of 'loony' posts? 'Everyone' isn't obsessed; you are obsessed. You still haven't answered the pivotal question; why do you care so much, when nobody else does? Pretty sure El-P was on the Smarkschoice forums at the time and he wasn't even aware of it. This was not some gargantuan event; it was an internet political argument with some unsavory views that only you bring up time and time again. It is incredible that you cared enough at the time to use every opportunity to find a fifteen year old boy and insult him (to initially even rush to the Off Topic section of Smarkschoice which you never frequented otherwise). Yet to be still feeling magnetism to the same person now, six years on, and such hatred, is baffling. Every time I have been active here in the last five years you have rushed to the threads to castigate me; it's obsession.

 

I imagine that Bix, Tomk, SLL and I may take shots at you more then other people, because as Jews we maybe a little more sensitive to Holocaust denial then gentiles,

It's a big reason certainly; you took the posts as a huge personal insult and as such have been desperate to 'get your own back' ever since.

 

Time and again you have proved yourself as an immature, insecure man (as if those DVDVR reviews where everyone went to great lengths to prove how drunk they got weren't proof enough of their juvenile desperation to prove to people they actually got wasted from time to time and had a life), immature enough to follow a fifteen year old troll around the internet like you have a personal vendetta that you can't let go of.

[JerryvonKramer]

What are your views on Kamala, anarchistxx?

[jdw]

Oh, I remember that particular match. It had escaped my memories.

I wish the full version of that was out there somewhere. I wish Classics went through all of 1991 and into 1992 rather than end its run in mid-1990. Though Dan has mentioned that there is a variation of Classics that possibly went into 1991.

 

 

In front of a japanese audience yeah, but is that the same kind of "face in peril" work that would have been needed in WWF in the 90's ?

You might be right there. I think in just about any era of the WWF that you would have wanted this version of the Can-Ams to start off as heels. It would be possible to turn them at the right time and against the right opponents, similar to the MX (or could have been done with Arn & Tully, though obviously they would have preferred to work as heels).

 

Agreed the the Lafon thing was dumb.

 

John

[jdw]

What are your views on Kamala, anarchistxx?

My thought would be to ease away from the Bix & Phil vs XX stuff. Let Loss and Will figure out what they want to do with it, but there isn't any good from any of the rest of us piling on or working the fringes of their discussion.

 

John

[anarchistxx]

What are your views on Kamala, anarchistxx?

Well, I'd rather watch him wrestle than read your tedious posts and worthless threads, but that isn't saying much. Still, you get top marks for kissing DVDVR arse.

 

My thought would be to ease away from the Bix & Phil vs XX stuff. Let Loss and Will figure out what they want to do with it, but there isn't any good from any of the rest of us piling on or working the fringes of their discussion.

A refreshing sentiment, especially since 'Jerry Von Kramer' actually has no clue about anything to do with it, since he wasn't around at the time. My view is that the subject should be dropped for good, but then it isn't me who brings it up. However, I've said to Loss before, if he doesn't want me posting on here then I'll leave, it isn't as if I'm a regular poster.

[Dylan Waco]

Coloured? I know you say you have grown up, but it seems odd to appropriate the language of 70 year old Southern whites as a way to prove it. Or is that a common term in Britain? Also not sure that is the right term to use when arguing against accusation of racism but whatever.

 

I literally can't believe anyone believes Scorp was less charismatic than Malenko.

[JerryvonKramer]

What are your views on Kamala, anarchistxx?

My thought would be to ease away from the Bix & Phil vs XX stuff. Let Loss and Will figure out what they want to do with it, but there isn't any good from any of the rest of us piling on or working the fringes of their discussion.

 

John

 

Right you are. Just thought I'd try to lighten the mood with a little call back.

[Kronos]

My thought would be to ease away from the Bix & Phil vs XX stuff. Let Loss and Will figure out what they want to do with it, but there isn't any good from any of the rest of us piling on or working the fringes of their discussion.

 

John

Spoken like an experienced forum moderator!

[anarchistxx]

Coloured? I know you say you have grown up, but it seems odd to appropriate the language of 70 year old Southern whites as a way to prove it. Or is that a common term in Britain? Also not sure that is the right term to use when arguing against accusation of racism but whatever.

It certainly isn't an offensive term here, but there you go. I have no idea how southern whites talk, having never come into contact with any of them. I find something like the commonly used 'African American' a lot more disparaging; why not merely 'American'?

[JerryvonKramer]

I do not want to get into any debates here, but just want to clear something up. "Coloured" is considered offensive these days in the UK for sure. "Black" is the acceptable phrase for talking about a black person.

 

I believe the reason it is considered offensive is because back during the immigration waves of the 1960s, landlords used to put up signs saying "no coloureds" in the window and that would cover people from the West Indies, India, Pakistan and commonwealth African nations.

 

However, people of a certain generation -- I'd say people in their 60s -- still use the term sometimes when they think they are being PC, in the same way they might say "handicapped" instead of "disabled".

 

Anyway, whatever the case, "coloured" is definitely not generally acceptable, you'd never hear someone say it on the BBC. And if someone said it to my wife, for example, whose parents are Indian, she'd probably be mildly offended.

[MJH]

Eh, words are only as offensive as their context. Is 'Woman Is The Nigger Of The World' remotely racist? Besides, aren't we all African anyway?

 

I digress, I mean, whatever Anarchist may or may not have said in the past, finding Scorpio overrated is hardly grounds for accusations of KKK membership, nor would that bare any relevance to a wrestling discussion.

 

But whilst we're on the subject of PC (the last page or two are going to be sliced soon anyway), what's the status on "Negro" now? Have we turned Atticus Finch into a posthumous racist?

[MJH]

Oh, and people in England are too busy focusing their prejudice and hatred on Muslims, Eastern Europeans, Asylum Seekers, Benefits Cheats etc... to spend any focus on (much smaller) anti-black racism.

[El-P]

Oh, and people in France are too busy focusing their prejudice and hatred on Muslims, Eastern Europeans, Asylum Seekers, Benefits Cheats etc... to spend any focus on (much smaller) anti-black racism.

Fixed. Sadly.

[El-P]

In front of a japanese audience yeah, but is that the same kind of "face in peril" work that would have been needed in WWF in the 90's ?

You might be right there. I think in just about any era of the WWF that you would have wanted this version of the Can-Ams to start off as heels. It would be possible to turn them at the right time and against the right opponents, similar to the MX (or could have been done with Arn & Tully, though obviously they would have preferred to work as heels).

I think so too. Kroffat was a natural heel and worked most of his career portraying a dick. Wasn't he working heel in Puerto Rico in the 80's as Phil LaFleur ? I wonder which other territory he worked since I don't think he was in Montreal with the Bravo/Brito/Rougeaus crew. I think he popped up in the original UWF though.

[anarchistxx]

Anyway, whatever the case, "coloured" is definitely not generally acceptable, you'd never hear someone say it on the BBC. And if someone said it to my wife, for example, whose parents are Indian, she'd probably be mildly offended.

Well, things differ from region to region. This is a statement that is an absolute cliche of racists, I know, but I actually have quite a lot of asian friends, and some black friends, and I don't think they'd be particularly offended if I used the word 'coloured'. It is contextual anyway, as said.

 

Oh, and people in England are too busy focusing their prejudice and hatred on Muslims, Eastern Europeans, Asylum Seekers, Benefits Cheats etc... to spend any focus on (much smaller) anti-black racism.

I don't think the majority of people in England are overly prejudiced; obviously there's the BNP and UKIP minority, and a load of people from impoverished backgrounds or council estates who regard The Sun as their bible and Jeremy Kyle as the greatest TV show ever (to be fair, it's great fucking entertainment). Even here the focus of prejudice is shifting to Eastern Europeans for supposedly taking jobs and benefit claiming asylum seekers. But overall, this is one of the most tolerant countries in the world. The only trouble I can remember in my city was a minor BNP protest outside a mosque that the police moved on swiftly.

[Bix]

people like yourself who I seem to remember at one stage accusing numerous people of only not liking Mark Henry because he was a 'fat, sweaty black man' or something equally as poetic, which questions whether it's possible in your psyche to dislike a coloured wrestler without demonstrating racist undertones.

Phil and Dylan have covered the rest but this was based on:

 

1. People saying they didn't like Mark Henry because he was "fat."

2. People saying they didn't like Mark Henry because he was "sweaty," something I've never seen another wrestler criticized before or since. They only said it about the black guy who once cut a promo about putting his "stank" on a pretty blond girl (and has since had a non-sequitur skit done on TV about bottling his horrible, animalistic odor).

[MJH]

The notion that England is a 'liberal' or 'tolerant' country in relation to the rest of the world only speaks badly of the rest of the world.

[kjh]

To make an analogy, as a gay man I don't see Kenny McBride of the UKFF in quite the same way when he became a militant defender of the Catholic Catechism on homosexuality and started linking homosexuality to paedophilia. People will be sarcastic dicks when you make such goad-worthy statements for a long time after.

[kjh]

The notion that England is a 'liberal' or 'tolerant' country in relation to the rest of the world only speaks badly of the rest of the world.

I was thinking the same thing. I think we've also deluded ourselves into believing we're better than everywhere else after years of backslapping rhetoric.