Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 3

[Jingus]

Lambchop video starring Wolfie D and some dude doing a Brody impersonation. Judging by the credits, looks like it was filmed at a Tony Falk-promoted show.

Yep. This was filmed at a USWO show, my old home fed. The building is a horrible crackhouse of a motel called the Stadium Inn, and I'm amazed at how great they got it to look on camera. The Brody-looking dude is a local worker named Josephus, who sometimes works for SAW and a bunch of the other area promotions. You can briefly see old Raw jobber Gary Valiant (also Billy Scott's little brother) on the monitor, as well as infamous Nashville crazy superfan Chicken-hat Charles in the crowd. Good video, it really captures the vibe of a small indy show, especially the general weariness of the locker room.

[Dylan Waco]

I actually have liked a fair amount of the USWO I've seen

[Ricky Jackson]

I'm now fairly certain that when we look back on John Cena's career in ten or twenty years this feud with Kane will be considered his most embarrassing low point.

[sek69]

I'm now fairly certain that when we look back on John Cena's career in ten or twenty years this feud with Kane will be considered his most embarrassing low point.

 

Not only is the feud bad, but stuff like tonight where they had a Hogan/Savage-like moment where it looked like they cut to the back early and it appeared that Kane gently escorted Eve into the ambulance instead of forcing her in. It's very rare WWE has gaffes like that, and when they do it always seems like the most embarrassing kind possible.

 

Also how brutal was it while Cena was trying his best to babyface it up, only to have a large portion of the crowd chant "WE DON'T LIKE YOU" at him. He tried his best to play it off, but it looked like it even caught him off guard how vicious the crowd was.

[NintendoLogic]

I'm now fairly certain that when we look back on John Cena's career in ten or twenty years this feud with Kane will be considered his most embarrassing low point.

But when we look back at Kane's career, this might not even be in the top five. I'm not a fan of him as a worker, but I am impressed by his ability to remain consistently over despite receiving some of the worst booking imaginable.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Also how brutal was it while Cena was trying his best to babyface it up, only to have a large portion of the crowd chant "WE DON'T LIKE YOU" at him. He tried his best to play it off, but it looked like it even caught him off guard how vicious the crowd was.

It was "WE ALL HATE YOU!"

 

On paper everything about the Kane/ Cena angle works for me. Evil Bad guy does evil things to get good guy to snap, including fucking up his protege to the point where the protege eventually hates the good guy, add in a chick..etc..etc.

 

But the execution has just been bad, besides Kane who's so good at making shitty stuff work.

[cm funk]

Lagana had some of the right ideas on his podcast, but when it came down to it he had some really terrible ones as well. He hyped up pushing young guys and women, but came up with some ridiculous scenarios that would never work in practice and didn't sound likely to draw money

 

I'm sure Russo will be back at some point anyway

 

Guy I'd like to see get a run with the book in TNA is Paul Heyman. He at least would have had a vision for it and shook things up, rather than the constant slide of mediocrity that it's been. I don't even think I'd be a huge fan of Heyman's TNA and some of the people he'd push, but it would be better than it is now

[Strummer]

today is Tommy Dreamer's 41st birhtday.

 

I know it's wrestling but I can't believe he's only 41. That made him in his mid 20s during the ECW feud with Raven when it looked like he was pushing 40 then. Scott Levy is seven years older. Hey how'd they go to high school together!?

[Johnny Sorrow]

Lagana had some of the right ideas on his podcast, but when it came down to it he had some really terrible ones as well. He hyped up pushing young guys and women, but came up with some ridiculous scenarios that would never work in practice and didn't sound likely to draw money

It's WrestleMania time. Get ready for Lagana, Bauer, etc, etc, to be all over net radio/ podcasts explaining how smart they were and how great their ideas were, and again going on about Vince and Stephanie's quirks.

[sek69]

Lagana had some of the right ideas on his podcast, but when it came down to it he had some really terrible ones as well. He hyped up pushing young guys and women, but came up with some ridiculous scenarios that would never work in practice and didn't sound likely to draw money

It's WrestleMania time. Get ready for Lagana, Bauer, etc, etc, to be all over net radio/ podcasts explaining how smart they were and how great their ideas were, and again going on about Vince and Stephanie's quirks.

 

 

Last year they were all on Lagana's podcast at IWantWrestling, which he shut down when he got the TNA gig.

[El-P]

today is Tommy Dreamer's 41st birhtday.

 

I know it's wrestling but I can't believe he's only 41. That made him in his mid 20s during the ECW feud with Raven when it looked like he was pushing 40 then. Scott Levy is seven years older. Hey how'd they go to high school together!?

41 ? That means he was only 30 when ECW went under and his body was already broken down. I didn't think he was as old as Raven, but I never thought he was just passed 40. Amazing.

[flyonthewall2983]

People who chant Cena sucks are just Austin marks who wishes he drank beer and cursed more often.

[Loss]

Lagana had some of the right ideas on his podcast, but when it came down to it he had some really terrible ones as well. He hyped up pushing young guys and women, but came up with some ridiculous scenarios that would never work in practice and didn't sound likely to draw money

 

I'm sure Russo will be back at some point anyway

 

Guy I'd like to see get a run with the book in TNA is Paul Heyman. He at least would have had a vision for it and shook things up, rather than the constant slide of mediocrity that it's been. I don't even think I'd be a huge fan of Heyman's TNA and some of the people he'd push, but it would be better than it is now

Heyman booking would be better than now, but I'm still not confident it would be good. I think it's time to give someone a shot that has never been in the driver's seat before. And while I'm sure there are exceptions, the typical problem with people who haven't had an on-camera role in booking is that they underestimate the value of the in-ring action in selling their vision, and they aren't particularly good at crafting finishes.

 

Also, Lagana is just a continued product of the Russo mindset that places a lot of self-importance on "writing" and being "creative", giving everyone a gimmick, good lines and "something to do". I'd rather TNA just go the old school route and find two ex-wrestlers they can rotate in and out of a top booker spot every six months.

[Matt D]

Also how brutal was it while Cena was trying his best to babyface it up, only to have a large portion of the crowd chant "WE DON'T LIKE YOU" at him. He tried his best to play it off, but it looked like it even caught him off guard how vicious the crowd was.

It was "WE ALL HATE YOU!"

 

On paper everything about the Kane/ Cena angle works for me. Evil Bad guy does evil things to get good guy to snap, including fucking up his protege to the point where the protege eventually hates the good guy, add in a chick..etc..etc.

 

But the execution has just been bad, besides Kane who's so good at making shitty stuff work.

 

I actually haven't SEEN any of it. I've had a hard time catching Raw lately for some reason and I've just missed all of it, and let me tell you, on PAPER, reading about it, it's not so bad. Especially if we're under the assumption Eve is in cahoots with Kane now.

[Al]

today is Tommy Dreamer's 41st birhtday.

 

I know it's wrestling but I can't believe he's only 41. That made him in his mid 20s during the ECW feud with Raven when it looked like he was pushing 40 then. Scott Levy is seven years older. Hey how'd they go to high school together!?

Doesn't Raven strike you as a person who could've been held back a lot?

[Loss]

I'm not sure Raven is capable of producing anything good without being surrounded by numerous underlings and having his matches filled with weapons and run-ins. I don't think he's capable of working an exciting, 30-minute main event without any extracurricular stuff. Just me.

[El-P]

I'm not sure Raven is capable of producing anything good without being surrounded by numerous underlings and having his matches filled with weapons and run-ins. I don't think he's capable of working an exciting, 30-minute main event without any extracurricular stuff. Just me.

Not many people are capable to work an exciting 30 minute main event period. And I don't think he ever claimed he could (nor anyone else for that matter).

 

I found Raven matches more enjoyable than most stuff on ECW, certainly more enjoyable 15 years later than overrated "technical" demonstrations of Eddie vs Dean, or nonsensical wankery a la RVD, or horrible boring brawls a la Duds. Way more fresh and more fun to watch. Yes there was ton of bullshit, but it was fun bullshit that worked. Just me (litteraly, since I'm probably alone to still enjoy Raven as much as I do).

[Matt D]

Levy is a guy who always put a lot of thought into his stuff and who generally loves wrestling. Really, the only thing I'd ever want to go back and watch in ECW, past Tracy Smothers and Tommy Rich and weird cameo appearances by guys like Jannetty, is all the non-match Raven stuff.

[El-P]

Levy is a guy who always put a lot of thought into his stuff and who generally loves wrestling.

This too.

And he's not above laughing at himself, especially at his poor athleticism (or lack thereof), or the fact he was really lazy at times. He's truly one of the most interesting wrestling personnality to me, as he's got that old-school vibe to him despite being very progressive. Probably the fact that he came out during the dying days of the territories, and that Levy is himself an interesting guy to begin with.

[rovert]

The Mike McGuirk Highspots shoot interview is the best ones I've heard in a while. She isn't a worker but she is a very knowledgeable and business savvy promoter's daughter. The interview doesnt have the normal shoot interview tropes - thank god.

 

She despises Bill Watts.

[El-P]

The interview doesnt have the normal tropes which is a change from the extremely samey shoots.

You mean there are no "Those guys don't know how to work, it's just spot spot spot. We told stories back in the days." and no "We used to work 30 minutes matches every nights, we were having great matches, we drew tons of people. Nobody can draw today because they don't know how to work.", from guys who were barely above average workers ?

Seriously, I'll watch that soon. I loved Mike when she was ring announcing for the WWF. Dressed like crap though, oh, the bad fashion sense of the late 80's/early 90's (see also : York, Alexandria).

[rovert]

The interview doesnt have the normal tropes which is a change from the extremely samey shoots.

You mean there are no "Those guys don't know how to work, it's just spot spot spot. We told stories back in the days." and no "We used to work 30 minutes matches every nights, we were having great matches, we drew tons of people. Nobody can draw today because they don't know how to work.", from guys who were barely above average workers ?

 

Sit under the learning tree and I will tell you.

 

Pretty rough on Mike being a daughter when her father was expecting/needing a son especially when Leroy lost the territory. She just had a different life story and perspective.

 

Bobby Heenan wasnt a fan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BDCC2dLbgo

[Loss]

I'm not sure Raven is capable of producing anything good without being surrounded by numerous underlings and having his matches filled with weapons and run-ins. I don't think he's capable of working an exciting, 30-minute main event without any extracurricular stuff. Just me.

Not many people are capable to work an exciting 30 minute main event period. And I don't think he ever claimed he could (nor anyone else for that matter).

 

I found Raven matches more enjoyable than most stuff on ECW, certainly more enjoyable 15 years later than overrated "technical" demonstrations of Eddie vs Dean, or nonsensical wankery a la RVD, or horrible boring brawls a la Duds. Way more fresh and more fun to watch. Yes there was ton of bullshit, but it was fun bullshit that worked. Just me (litteraly, since I'm probably alone to still enjoy Raven as much as I do).

 

Whether he claims he can or not, the question was if he was held back. I don't think he was. Not claming that he's not good at his job doesn't absolve him from responsibility over being good at his job. My problem with him wasn't that bullshit was part of his act. My problem was that if you stripped away the bullshit, he had absolutely nothing left.

 

Most of ECW is horrible beyond belief (at least from 1993-1997), so I'm not disagreeing with you there.

 

What Vince Russo is to booking (a bunch of stuff to distract you from the fact that it's all crap) is what Raven is to wrestling.

[Cox]

I think what the original poster was saying was that Raven would have been held back in school in order to be in the same grade as Dreamer when they were in high school. Not that Raven was held back as a personality. I think most would agree that Scott Levy, for the most part, overachieved as a wrestling personality for much of his career.

[PeteF3]

I think the "held back" question was a joke relating to how 47-year old Raven and 41-year old Dreamer were kayfabe classmates.