Mini Bennett Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 To the guy who who compared Yoshi Tatsu to Kazuchika Okada, how the fuck are those two even remotely relevant to each other? Because both were New Japan wrestlers who the WWE showed interest in. Yamamoto made the move, and his career has been pretty much dormant ever since. Hence: If Okada was considering it, he should ask Yamamoto how his career is going. It's actually not that complicated if you think about it. You're right, it's not complicated. Okada is one of New Japans biggest names right now, main-eventing their biggest shows. Just because he came from the same place doesn't in anyway shape or form imply that he would be used the same way, especially since Tatsu did diddly squat in NJPW. That doesn't even get into the gigantic contract WWE would have to hand over to Okada to get the guy, which automatically means he'd get a rocket shoved up his ass. I like Tatsu too, but it's truly a horrible comparison every way you look at it, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 You're right, it's not complicated. Okada is one of New Japans biggest names right now, main-eventing their biggest shows. Just because he came from the same place doesn't in anyway shape or form imply that he would be used the same way, especially since Tatsu did diddly squat in NJPW. That doesn't even get into the gigantic contract WWE would have to hand over to Okada to get the guy, which automatically means he'd get a rocket shoved up his ass. I like Tatsu too, but it's a truly horrible comparison every way you look at it, Mike. Because accomplishments in other countries mean so much to the WWE . . . How about that huge Sin Cara push? Did they just forget they signed Averno? Remember Kenzo Suzki? How about Tensai? Giant Bernard got a huge push right out the gate when he jumped to NJ in 2006, extended tag title reigns with both Tomko and Anderson. He and Anderson set the defense record for the IWGP Tag Titles and unified them with the GHC Tag Titles. At what point did Tensai ever have anything remote close to the rocket up the ass? What makes Okada any different? Guys like Mysterio, Tajiri, and Del Rio aren't the rule, they're the exception. Tajiri and Mysterio had already been established in the US thru WCW and ECW before going to the 'E, while Del Rio had the right pedigree and character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Bennett Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 How about that huge Sin Cara push? Was put on television without being given time to adjust to WWE's style of working. Was still a heavily featured mid-carder despite the rocky start. Sin Cara not going to FCW was a huge, huge mistake, IMO. Remember Kenzo Suzki? lol How about Tensai? Giant Bernard got a huge push right out the gate when he jumped to NJ in 2006, extended tag title reigns with both Tomko and Anderson. He and Anderson set the defense record for the IWGP Tag Titles and unified them with the GHC Tag Titles. At what point did Tensai ever have anything remote close to the rocket up the ass? He debuted the night after WrestleMania with weeks of build up and a few weeks later pinned John Cena clean, and then didn't get over. It happens. Some guys just don't connect for whatever reason. If you don't think WWE shoved a rocket up Tensai's ass, you weren't watching back then. Because accomplishments in other countries mean so much to the WWE . . . and What makes Okada any different? There is absolutely no way in hell they're getting him without paying him an ass load of money, meaning that he absolutely, unequivocally will get a rocket shoved up his ass. And I guess that was my initial question: Alberto Del Rio, Tensai, Daniel Bryan, Sin Cara, Kharma and others were all given pushes right out of the gate, and there were mixed results for varying reasons. We know that Okada would be heavily pushed because of what is already established (big money = big push, otherwise known as 1 + 1 = 2), but how do people think he would connect. Unfortunately, apparently you can't ask that question without going through the tired "he'll be held down~!!1!!!" routine I could just as easily read on Bleacher Report. Guys like Mysterio, Tajiri, and Del Rio aren't the rule, they're the exception. Tajiri and Mysterio had already been established in the US thru WCW and ECW before going to the 'E, while Del Rio had the right pedigree and character. Alberto Del Rio was given a colossal push because he was a huge draw in Mexico and if WWE had any shot of getting the guy, they had to pay him a LOT of money, meaning he automatically was given a big push. Del Rio was given a big push because his contract essentially said he would. Okada isn't different, at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Sin Cara was signed with huge fanfare and given a 'special attraction' push numerous times. He failed because of other reasons, not because WWE didnt want to push him hard enough. You think he would have had these opportunities, the special billing, the unique lighting, etc. if he wasnt a draw in Mexico and was just a random lucha guy with a developmental contract? And Kenzo Suzuki...was terrible. Tensai got to pin Cena and Punk on TV before they gave up on him. He was given a goofy gimmick, for sure, but they didnt not want to push him. If anything he was pushed too hard when he first came back since he was in main events before he had a chance to get the new gimmick over. Its not a guarantee that Okada gets a big push, but comparing him to Tatsu doesnt work when Okada is a star in Japan and Tatsu never was. As someone already said above, Okada is in a position to demand a lot more money than Naofumi Yamamoto could have, and bringing in a guy at a big price is an extra incentive to push them and get your money's worth. I think that more than anything else would help Okada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Getting back to Bruno being inducted into the Hall of Fame, I just watched Zbysko's KC 1980 WWF Timeline. He said at the very end after he was fired he was never to return again..."until two months ago, kind of". Finally saw that one. Zsbysko is an old-school guy so he's a master bullshiter, and he puts himself over a lot. That being said, he puts Bruno over a lot more, puts over Backlund as a worker at least (saying he could have great match with him because he was a real wrestler unlike most of the guy in the company) and tells some great stories (true or false). Don't look for clear cut facts, but as far as more general observations about wrestling back then, it's pretty interesting. Overall he comes off as a really smart guy and actually as really likable and thankfull for the opportunity he got. So yeah, tons of bullshit but I'd say it has to be expected from a wrestler anyway, and Larry isn't one of those bitter old guys, he seems happy and jovial. (you can play the game of taking a shot each time Larry says "Bruno", you'll won't go through the whole thing, you'll be wasted after half an hour) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Alberto Del Rio was given a colossal push because he was a huge draw in Mexico and if WWE had any shot of getting the guy, they had to pay him a LOT money, meaning he automatically was given a big push. Del Rio was given a big push because his contract essentially said he would. Okada isn't different, at all.Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think Dos Caras Jr. was a really big time player in Mexico? I think part of HIS big push was the fact that he kept talking about wanting to quit and go back to Mexico if they didn't do something with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Bennett Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Its not a guarantee that Okada gets a big push, but comparing him to Tatsu doesnt work when Okada is a star in Japan and Tatsu never was. As someone already said above, Okada is in a position to demand a lot more money than Naofumi Yamamoto could have, and bringing in a guy at a big price is an extra incentive to push them and get your money's worth. I think that more than anything else would help Okada. This is probably a more diplomatic version of what I said. Really though, has WWE ever brought in a guy with a big contract and not pushed him? At least without outside circumstance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Really though, has WWE ever brought in a guy with a big contract and not pushed him? At least without outside circumstance? Tiger Ali Singh says hello. Of course you can say the "outside circumstance" was that he was a shitty worker, but I found he was actually pretty good in the Million Dollar Man redux gimmick they gave him at one point. Mark Henry too got a gigantic contract and was barely pushed at first. It took years and years and years and years before he amounted to anything. When you think of it they gave out some really stupid contracts during this time, trying to find an anwser to Nitro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Really though, has WWE ever brought in a guy with a big contract and not pushed him? At least without outside circumstance?Tiger Ali Singh says hello. Of course you can say the "outside circumstance" was that he was a shitty worker, but I found he was actually pretty good in the Million Dollar Man redux gimmick they gave him at one point. I think they missed the boat by not making him a heel manager. The Lo Down thing was just a terrible fit but there had to have been someone they could have found that fit the character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 I think they missed the boat by not making him a heel manager. The Lo Down thing was just a terrible fit but there had to have been someone they could have found that fit the character. Agreed. He could have bumped his ass off for the babyface, occasionnaly work a match like a total chickenshit. I always thought Tiger had some potential, more as a character than as a worker. WWF missed the boat on some good managers with him and Don Callis. Incidentally, both were hated and heckled in the locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 There is absolutely no way in hell they're getting him without paying him an ass load of money, meaning that he absolutely, unequivocally will get a rocket shoved up his ass.WWE can afford to offer a hell of a lot more money than even NJPW can. They're the biggest, most profitable wrestling company in the world. WWE midcard contracts offer more cash than almost any position on any other roster in the world. Also: the WWE would not have hesitated one second to fire Del Rio or turn him into a jobber if he hadn't turned out to be so damned good at his job. He got his megapush because he worked hard and got over, not because his contract said so. If he'd bombed and turned out to be a worse-than-Sin-Cara level performer, they probably would have future endeavour'd him pretty quickly, regardless of whatever the contract said. If Okada went to the WWE, no, I don't think he'd be treated much different than Yoshi Tatsu. One simple reason: what Japanese guy ever has? Tajiri is the closest thing we've got to a "pushed" Asian star in this company, and there were plenty of periods where he was a total jobber and he never even sniffed being in the real main events or top angles. Otherwise, every other Japanese guy has been some midcarder who might get an initial honeymoon push, but is generally treated like a complete joke. Remember all the shit they did with Kaientai, wasting some of the finest Japanese juniors as squash fodder and racial stereotypes. The only Japanese guy that the WWE treated with respect was a goddamn Hawaiian Samoan pretending to be a sumo wrestler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruiserBrody Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 RE: Foreigners in WWF - How many remember Miguel Perez jr getting a babyface push in early 97 - in part because of Perez Sr's WWF past and part that he was "mad" at Savio for turning heel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 RE: Foreigners in WWF - How many remember Miguel Perez jr getting a babyface push in early 97 - in part because of Perez Sr's WWF past and part that he was "mad" at Savio for turning heel. I do. I wouldn't call it a "push" though. He's another one I would have loved to see in WCW instead of being wasted in WWF. Miguel Perez vs Eddie, vs Rey, vs Juvy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Pretty sure he was in wcw briefly. Pretty sure he had a nitro match with juvi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Miguel Perez Jr. was in WCW briefly. I remember they gave him 10 minutes on a Nitro and he had a good match with Juvi or La Parka. I can't remember which. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 It was Juvi. He went over too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruiserBrody Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 RE: Foreigners in WWF - How many remember Miguel Perez jr getting a babyface push in early 97 - in part because of Perez Sr's WWF past and part that he was "mad" at Savio for turning heel. I do. I wouldn't call it a "push" though. He's another one I would have loved to see in WCW instead of being wasted in WWF. Miguel Perez vs Eddie, vs Rey, vs Juvy... I looked - appears to have made 3 TV shots. 2 matches. He did get a WWF mag write up though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Miguel Perez Jr. was in WCW briefly. I remember they gave him 10 minutes on a Nitro and he had a good match with Juvi or La Parka. I can't remember which. Now that you all mention it, I seem to remember. Must have been in 1996 since he was in the WWF in early 1997. Missed opportunity either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Something that sets Okada apart from Tajiri and other juniors is that he is over 6ft and, what, 230-240lbs.? He isn't a cruiserweight. Neither is Alberto Del Rio, and I don't think that is an insignificant factor in why he was pushed either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 I get the feeling that the money Okada is making for New Japan is being over estimated, as is the amount of money it would take for the WWE to sign him. The notion that Okada would get a sustained rocket up the ass push is pretty humorous. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 I'm not saying he'd get the rocket, at all, but I do think he has more of a shot than Yoshi Tatsu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Okada got signed by NJ for being tall and Japanese. He sucked until he got on steroids which just "happened" to be when he got his push. Hmm, strange. People like Ishii were more talented than him at that time, but Ishii was 5'8 and way too small for NJ to push. NJ loves their tall guys. See Archer, Lance. And their guys on steroids. See almost every NJ project over the last 20 years minus Nagata. Tanahashi, Goto, Nakamura, Tenzan, Nakanishi, Sasaki, etc. Okada is making 6 figures. Tanahashi makes like $350,000 or so and I imagine Okada makes near that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 He didn't suck before he bulked up. He was the best "young lion" New Japan has had in a long ass time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Miguel Perez Jr. was in WCW briefly. I remember they gave him 10 minutes on a Nitro and he had a good match with Juvi or La Parka. I can't remember which. Now that you all mention it, I seem to remember. Must have been in 1996 since he was in the WWF in early 1997. Missed opportunity either way. Miguel Perez Jr., along with El Merenguero (Huracan Castillo, Jr.), was one of the top stars of the Savio Vega-booked era of "WWF Los Super Astros" (half-hour show on Telemundo). That's probably the biggest push Perez Jr. got in the WWF. Merenguero made the most of it, was so charismatic and had a great finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 I'm not saying he'd get the rocket, at all, but I do think he has more of a shot than Yoshi Tatsu. Not you, Mini Bennett made that particular remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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