Ring of Honor Wrestling

[MikeCampbell]

I don't think ROH is really geared toward the PWO-type of hardcore internet smart mark fan anymore. They obviously were during their heyday, but since Sinclair took over, they seem to content to be the modern day Smoky Mountain. The small company that run in their markets and is content with where they are, and not trying to become the next national powerhouse overnight.

[Hollinger.]

PWG has been the hot indie shit for a long time now, and it is basically ignored here.

[El-P]

Indie wrestling is so mid-00's.

[Childs]

I don't think ROH is really geared toward the PWO-type of hardcore internet smart mark fan anymore. They obviously were during their heyday, but since Sinclair took over, they seem to content to be the modern day Smoky Mountain. The small company that run in their markets and is content with where they are, and not trying to become the next national powerhouse overnight.

 

Does their plan to return to PPV run counter to that SMW vibe? I don't know the answer; genuinely asking.

[Childs]

PWG has been the hot indie shit for a long time now, and it is basically ignored here.

 

Agreed, but PWG has always seemed content to maintain its SoCal audience and sell a little merch to hardcores scattered around the country. I think you can hum along at that level without generating a lot of buzz among the folks here.

 

But if ROH has larger ambitions (which, maybe it doesn't), that seems more problematic.

[Hollinger.]

I don't see it as much of a gamble for ROH. Sinclair has the equipment already, so there's not huge overhead typically associated with attempting to broadcast live. They know there is an out of market audience with the desire to watch their product live and pay for it... it feels low risk to me. I dunno. I don't pay much attention to ROH, but it feels like a way to take advantage of the Sinclair connection and potentially make some money. There's a lot of dumb shit available to watch on PPV, it's not like going there means they expect gigantic buys.

[Childs]

That's a good point. May well be low-risk, low-reward.

[MikeCampbell]

 

I don't think ROH is really geared toward the PWO-type of hardcore internet smart mark fan anymore. They obviously were during their heyday, but since Sinclair took over, they seem to content to be the modern day Smoky Mountain. The small company that run in their markets and is content with where they are, and not trying to become the next national powerhouse overnight.

Does their plan to return to PPV run counter to that SMW vibe? I don't know the answer; genuinely asking.

 

 

I don't think so. I only made the SMW comparison due to ROH being content to be happy where they are. They're still a national promotion, on TV in most of the major markets. So, going to PPV isn't a huge leap for them. It was much bigger, and much more ill-advised in 2007.

[Steenalized]

I watch the ROH TV show each week (on delay as a non-paying member, mind you) and enjoy it. I enjoy it a lot, actually, at least since January or so. That said, there's a 0% chance I'd ever get an ROH PPV. Between the Network, youtube, and their own website I can get all the wrestling I need. Then again, ROH/Sinclair are probably targeting markets like Carbondale and Decatur in Illinois instead of Chicago. Those have ROH TV, we don't.

[BillThompson]

I think my main issue with this move is that it's really not a step forward at all. At best it's lateral movement, and hearing RoH try and pump this up as a great move or something historic is so off that it's kinda cute.

[Petey]

It'd be more of a "historic" move if ROH was still hot and PPV didn't seem like a dying business. But it's 2014 and ROH, even though it seems to be better than it was a few years ago, doesn't have the same buzz about it that it did in 2005-2006, and PPV's just scream old news.

[goc]

I know they have a completely retarded history with iPPVs but I still feel like even going back to that would be better business than going back to regular PPV.

[Loss]

ROH having all of their shows on demand through a network similar to WWE's might actually be profitable at this point, especially since they now have some marketable guys in their archives. Maybe a lot of the indies with extensive tape libraries should network and do something like that, actually.

[Steenalized]

I'm not sold on PPV being a dying business, fwiw. Mayweather/Canelo did over two million buys last year. UFC may not be what it was 5 years ago but it's still pulling in millions and millions each year on their PPVs. Cable and PPV may be slowly going away but it's a long process. Court Bauer, who I take with a grain of salt, did make a good point on Wrestling Observer radio this week: PPV may be dead in 2020 or 2018 or hurting in 2016, but in 2014 it can still be a viable option. I don't think getting PPV is a huge deal for ROH but as long as they don't go full ECW and break the bank I think it's a good move.

[Tawren]

It's not really applicable if these are live PPV's, but I still think ROH splitting into two and then three "timelines" was a terrible idea:

 

-live shows that took months to go to DVD but the results were acknowledged as happening right then

-live shows that went to PPV months later but the results were acknowledged as happening when it aired

-TV tapings

 

I think this took so much wind out of their sails when they started PPV in 08 or whenever.

[BillThompson]

ROH having all of their shows on demand through a network similar to WWE's might actually be profitable at this point, especially since they now have some marketable guys in their archives. Maybe a lot of the indies with extensive tape libraries should network and do something like that, actually.

 

That would be great, and something I've been saying they should do. But, isn't this the same company that doesn't even offer DVDs of any of their stuff that happened before like 2009?

[Bix]

It's not really applicable if these are live PPV's, but I still think ROH splitting into two and then three "timelines" was a terrible idea:

 

-live shows that took months to go to DVD but the results were acknowledged as happening right then

-live shows that went to PPV months later but the results were acknowledged as happening when it aired

-TV tapings

 

I think this took so much wind out of their sails when they started PPV in 08 or whenever.

Crisis of Infinite Rings of Honor?

[bradhindsight]

 

ROH having all of their shows on demand through a network similar to WWE's might actually be profitable at this point, especially since they now have some marketable guys in their archives. Maybe a lot of the indies with extensive tape libraries should network and do something like that, actually.

 

That would be great, and something I've been saying they should do. But, isn't this the same company that doesn't even offer DVDs of any of their stuff that happened before like 2009?

 

 

They have VOD for ringside members. I don't know how often they swap out the old shows (goes all the way back to 2002).

 

http://www.rohwrestling.com/vod

 

They don't offer the individual shows pre 2009 (I don't know if this is a supply or space thing that they'll only go back 5 years) on DVD although they regularly put out comprehensive comps that use that footage.

[Karl]

As someone who has never seen any RoH at all...what are the stand out shows from the company over the years?

[anarchistxx]

As someone who has never seen any RoH at all...what are the stand out shows from the company over the years?

 

Depends what you are looking for. The early shows are intriguing and show exactly what type of style was in vogue at the time, and they garnered much critical praise. However, the WWE product at the time was fairly shoddy, and the lack of alternatives could have meant we overrated the indy stuff. Add that to the decline of that style amongst hardcores and who knows how well it would hold up. Generally the company hit its stride in 2004 when it came to interesting characters and stables, consistent cards, stacked regular talent up and down the roster, storylines that worked, crowds that were really hot but hadn't yet jumped on the smarky 'this is awesome' bandwagon. Then in 2006/2007 it started to decline so I can't really speak for anything during that period.

 

If you are looking for standalone cards you might be best checking out:

 

Reborn: Stage 2

Survival Of The Fittest 2004

Death Before Dishonor 2: Part 2

Midnight Express Reunion

Joe vs Punk II*

All Star Extravaganza II*

Manhattan Mayhem*

The Final Showdown

Punk: The Final Chapter

Final Battle 2005

Dragon Gate Challenge*

Better Than Our Best*

The 100th Show

Unified*

Anarchy In The UK

Glory By Honor 5: Night 2

Fight Of The Century

United We Stand

Manhattan Mayhem II

 

I've starred the truly essential shit if you only want a few.

 

Even then you are missing a ton of amazing matches, Danielson/London, Punk/Raven, Danielson's entire title reign circa 05-06, loads of fun undercard stuff from the likes of Jack Evans, Alex Shelley, Low-Ki, the CZW invasion with lots of cool Necro Butcher stuff, all Samoa Joe's matches from 2003 to 2006, Second City Saints vs Maff/Whitmer, the Briscoe Brothers 'man up' era stuff, Briscoe/Joe where he nearly bleeds to death, Homicide/Corino feud, Punk/Rave in the cage, the Aries/Dragon 75 minute match, Generation Next vs Rottweilers, and various others. I'd probably suggest getting the whole run from 2003-2006 and just fast forwarding the crap (i.e. anything involving Christopher Daniels) if you can pick it all up cheap.

[Karl]

Thanks mate - will see what I can get hold of.

[Petey]

The ROH vs. CZW feud was incredible. They had an awesome six man at the 100th show and then a great Cage of Death at the 2006 Death Before Dishonor. In my opinion, 2005 was when ROH's roster was deepest and the year things really started to click. 2006 still had a really good roster and arguably the company's two best storylines: ROH vs. CZW and Homicide's quest for the ROH Title.

 

Also, 2004 Samoa Joe was probably the best wrestler in North America that year and if he wasn't, he's definitely in the conversation. Ditto for 2006 Bryan Danielson. The first Manhattan Mayhem (2005) is a very good show, top to bottom, even though it doesn't have any blowaway matches. Everything just flowed really well and it was a really good show to watch. Honestly, ROH had a really good stretch of shows in 2005 from MM through Punk: The Final Chapter which concluded the first Summer of Punk angle, also possibly ROH's best story.

 

Depending on how much you want to invest in this, the stretch in 2005 from MM-Punk: The Final Chapter, then in 2006 from Dragon Gate Challenge through Death Before Dishonor 4 encompasses the ROH vs. CZW feud, plants the seeds for Homicide's quest for the title and in general just has some great shows, is another good stretch.

 

Actually looking back on it, 2006 is just really good in general. They were in a slight holding pattern until Homicide finally got his title shot, but there was so many good shows that year. Unified was really good and so was Glory By Honor V: Night Two.

 

Looking back makes me miss ROH's "prime". I had a lot of fun going to those shows and dropped so much $$ on DVD's from 2004-2008 I'd probably be ashamed if I calculated the total amount.

[anarchistxx]

Agree with all of that. The prime of ROH coincided with the absolute peak of my interest in wrestling, so will always look back on it fondly., even if I tended to savage a lot of the stuff in the 06 shows in my reviews. 2003-2005 were more consistent in my opinion, there is a lot of crap on the 2006 shows although the highs may be higher. Started to zone out when Delirious, BJ Whitmer and Adam Pearce started getting pushed to the top. It was expensive to follow though, this was in the days before mass broadband piracy so even if the official DVDs priced you out the unofficial routes were still pretty expensive, not like these days where people are selling discs at 0.50 a pop.

 

Is there still an interest in peak era ROH and mid noughties NOAH from upcoming smarks, the same way the generation who came up circa 2001-2004 were interested in 90s NJPW and ECW? Does the term 'smark' even exist anymore? Seems like there is so much wrestling available now at the click of a button that it would be hard for people to get attached to things as much.

[SomethingSavage]

They did SO MUCH good stuff early on. Not extremely early on, but early enough in the promotion's beginning phase to where you could've honestly seen them building & expanding upon it all. The Summer of Punk, the ascension of guys like Joe and Danielson, etc.

 

Jamie Noble matches were all fairly epic during his short stint there. All are worth seeking out, I'd say.

 

I remember liking Roddy Strong A LOT more back then, too.

 

The Joe/Punk series is forever worth a look, for anyone who hasn't seen it.

 

Ditto for Nigel/Danielson, whether it be their Pure Championship encounters or their ROH World Title stuff together.

 

Whitmer is a guy that put out some incredible "under the radar" type work at times as well.

 

I always thought the Cornette/Homicide work was great. As far as sagas go, other than the Summer of Punk or Punk/Raven earlier on, I honestly think it deserves to rank right up there with the rest of the angles that helped ROH stand out as a more character-driven product than ya might otherwise have placed it within that time frame.

 

And, while it got a little hokey at times, the same can be said for the Jimmy Jacobs "dark side" stuff. The way it was able to tie in SO MANY diverse personalities and characters at one time was really neat. Everybody from Aries to Lacey on over to Delirious and Necro Butcher were involved in a pretty big way. Before Gabe kind of lost his balance with it, I think the tale was really enthralling & it's a testament to him that he was able to juggle so much at once with it.

[anarchistxx]

Whitmer is a guy that put out some incredible "under the radar" type work at times as well.

 

No way, Whitmer was about as subtle as a brick. He was the guy throwing bombs and having a million near falls on the second match on the card. Had no idea how to pace, how to emote, how to work a lower card match that didn't detract and exhaust the crowd for the rest of the show. No charisma either.

 

He was passable whe teaming with Maff and was involved in some decent matches, but he was a real step below the rest of the roster when he got promoted to the main event when they started losing the top stars.

 

Forgot about Jimmy Jacobs though, he was involved in so much cool stuff, especially the Lacey storyline which was one of the best they did. Jacobs as a little lovelorn emo prick was such a fun character, would have probably translated well to the WWE.

 

I actually had his pathetic love song on my Ipod back then.

 

Laceyyyyyy

Put me in your top eight when you Myspace me

And never replace me

There are no other candidates

Together we're the match of the year