Current WWE

[C.S.]

The biggest problem Miz has is that he doesn't look like a threat, especially at main event level. He doesn't carry himself like a threat either. Even when you are playing a weasly, cowardly, fluky champion you need to seem like you can be dangerous and take advantage of mistakes.

 

I don't find him remotely interesting, entertaining or believable, although he is a good ambassador for the company.

 

That's a fair point.

 

But did HBK look like a threat either? Not even remotely.

 

But because HBK is an IWC darling (not around these parts, I realize), people will overlook that about him but criticize Miz for the same.

 

Obviously, HBK is bigger than Miz and better in the ring, but he does not come across as a threat at all IMO.

[Loss]

Shawn is a threat because he wins and because he is booked to take overcome huge amounts of punishment. Shawn has absolutely been pushed as a threat for most of the past 20+ years - not a physically imposing threat, but a guy capable of winning any match anytime. All of Miz's wins are treated as flukes and just about all of Shawn's wins have been treated as well-deserved and earned. That's the difference.

 

It's amazing when you look back at Shawn's career that he was able to go toe-to-toe credibly with guys much bigger than him despite not having any real hurty-looking offense and working super light. When you really look at why, it comes down to his won-loss record. Shawn Michaels won, so Shawn was credible. If Miz won, Miz would be credible too.

[goc]

Now I know a lot of people are coming down off the "Michaels is the GOAT" ledge but can we recognize that he's much better than The Miz? The Miz just isn't good enough to be booked as anything other than a fluky Honky Tonk Man type champion. I thought his title reign failed because they didn't go far ENOUGH in making him a weak looking fluke champion and tried to make him seem like a threat ending a lot of matches with the Skull Crushing Finale.

[anarchistxx]

That's a fair point.

 

But did HBK look like a threat either? Not even remotely.

 

Not a fair comparison at all. HBK had a lot more believable offence, dives that could conceivably take down a bigger opponent. He was sold as being more athletic and quick, able to absorb huge amounts of punishment and come out of nowhere with a devastating kick or a cross body or a flash pin. He wasn't afraid to take a huge risk to win the match. Which of these attributes does Miz possess?

 

It does come down partly to booking. That isn't the only reason though - Shawn carried himself like a threat, someone who could go toe to toe with bigger wrestlers, who had the smarts and ability to take them out even though he lacked size and power.

[Matt D]

I think more than any of that, Shawn KNEW (as well as most wrestlers ever) how to make himself look good (sometimes for the sake of the match and others to the detriment of his opponent). As a babyface, he'd use the kip up/hulk up comeback. He'd sell big but he'd also fight back frequently only to get cut off and as a heel he was a lot better of taking the match in a more compelling and imposing way than Miz is capable of. Winning helped but it's a bit like what Austin always gets on Ziggler's case about when it comes to being a force in exchanges.

[Jesse Ewiak]

I think it comes down to this - none of us saw Shawn Michaels act like an idiot at 20 years old w/ a bunch of other 20 year olds. Yeah, the whole Miz thing in the Real World probably got him a look from the WWE in the first place, but it also means, in the back of most people's mind, they don't buy him as a 'tough guy.' Even putting aside how he wrestles, there is no believably to Miz being enough of a badass to even be a credible chickenshit heel at the main even level.

[C.S.]

When Miz was pushed as a main eventer, he should've been booked like Edge IMO - an opportunist who makes use of weapons in the most brutal and barbaric manner possible...chairs, the Money in the Bank briefcase, etc. That would make up for any perceived "softness" in the ring. The early characterization that was all wrong for Jericho - hitting Chyna with a hammer, etc. - might have worked for Miz.

[Loss]

I think the half wrestler-half manager role, a la Eddie Gilbert, might have worked for Miz too.

[anarchistxx]

 

 

I think it comes down to this - none of us saw Shawn Michaels act like an idiot at 20 years old w/ a bunch of other 20 year olds.

 

How many of us even watched that? I didn't, had zero clue about his past with reality television except what was brought up on screen. Wrestlers have overcome worse perceptions than that to look a threat.

[C.S.]

 

I think it comes down to this - none of us saw Shawn Michaels act like an idiot at 20 years old w/ a bunch of other 20 year olds.

 

How many of us even watched that? I didn't, had zero clue about his past with reality television except what was brought up on screen. Wrestlers have overcome worse perceptions than that to look a threat.

 

 

Agreed. I never watched it. I assume this was more of an issue with locker room bullies like Bradshaw and Benoit than most of the audience.

[iamthedoctor]

The biggest problem Miz has is that he doesn't look like a threat, especially at main event level. He doesn't carry himself like a threat either. Even when you are playing a weasly, cowardly, fluky champion you need to seem like you can be dangerous and take advantage of mistakes.

 

I don't find him remotely interesting, entertaining or believable, although he is a good ambassador for the company.

 

Never understood why he went over Cena at mania. Just a terrible run and had no business with the World Title.

 

Considering he couldnt even beat Lawler without outside help during his reign says something. MITB Winner has always been something of a cheap way to win a title except RVD's which was a actual match to just jump a champ whos knocked out, I recall he needed help to beat Lawler in the TLC match on Raw as well as outside help to beat Orton at the Rumble and Cole for the Chamber. Then you get to Mania and the ending was just dumb to put Rock on top of that PPV, I know it was just to get even with Cena from Raw but the main event of the biggest PPV of the year was a terrible decision to do. At least do it after the match is over if you cant wait till Raw.

 

Miz's reign has to be one of the worst ever reigns in history.

[Fantastic]

At the time, wasn't putting the title on Lawler, if only for one day, discussed? If so, that really shows a lack of confidence in Miz as champion, if they were seriously considering having him lose the title to Jerry Lawler.

 

I'd imagine if they went through with this, that Miz would not have received a rematch and somebody else would go over Lawler the next night on Raw and faced Cena at Mania. Hell, maybe they'd have gone with Orton (champion) vs Cena vs Punk in a triple threat, with Rock costing Cena the match in a similar fashion to what actually went down.

[Grimmas]

At the time, wasn't putting the title on Lawler, if only for one day, discussed? If so, that really shows a lack of confidence in Miz as champion, if they were seriously considering having him lose the title to Jerry Lawler.

 

I'd imagine if they went through with this, that Miz would not have received a rematch and somebody else would go over Lawler the next night on Raw and faced Cena at Mania. Hell, maybe they'd have gone with Orton (champion) vs Cena vs Punk in a triple threat, with Rock costing Cena the match in a similar fashion to what actually went down.

Mania headlined with Cena-Lawler that year would had been AWESOME!

[shoe]

Holy crap this is from the Observer and it sounds terrible.

 

 

There were suggestions this week of putting a mask on Adrian Neville and making him a kids character based on Mighty Mouse. Neville is expected to be the next NXT performer brought up to the main roster as they are batting around ideas for him.

[Johnny Sorrow]

If they make a villain based on Oil Can Harry then I'm all for it.

[sek69]

I just like how earlier in the issue there's a story on how morale is low after Vince buried the whole roster while everyone gets stop and start pushes, and then you find out they want to take one of the top stars in developmental and literally make him a cartoon character.

[Matt D]

Yeah, so I'd be a million times more excited if Mighty Mouse comes out at the Rumble than Adrian freaking Neville.

[ButchReedMark]

They should have "Here I come to save the day" play at the rumble, he comes out, and Lawler piledrives him as he thinks it's a reincarnation of Kaufman followed by Neville wearing a neck brace for the rest of his career acting like Bob Orton Jr.

[Matt D]

No, no. That's good. I'd take Neville as an Elvis impersonator too.

[ButchReedMark]

I would happily sell my house and all my belongings to see Adrian Neville as a Geordie Elvis impersonator.

[fakeplastictrees]

I can't see Neville on the main roster with any gimmick outside of Evan Bourne 2.0 (with music and all). I would definitely like to see the space theme explored but WWE will either go completely overboard (as mentioned in this thread) or only go as far as buying Neville an astronaut costume ala Paul London. I think the best bet for Neville is for WWE to get him gear that plays well with illusions. Not 3D per-say, but definitely something that makes his movements seem magically.

[Alucard]

I don't think it was a lack of confidence in Miz that led to the Lawler speculation, just that the matches were kind of awesome, the story was good, and the crowd was hot for it so it made it all seem possible that King could've got a title run briefly there, especially since they stretched that feud out over months. I thought Miz was great in the role and played it excellently. Aside from the PPV matches with Orton and the Lawler feud, he had the really good falls count anywhere with Morrison and some solid TV matches against Bryan, Rey, Kofi, etc. After the title run, I loved the Alex Riley feud as well.

[iamthedoctor]

At the time, wasn't putting the title on Lawler, if only for one day, discussed? If so, that really shows a lack of confidence in Miz as champion, if they were seriously considering having him lose the title to Jerry Lawler.

 

I'd imagine if they went through with this, that Miz would not have received a rematch and somebody else would go over Lawler the next night on Raw and faced Cena at Mania. Hell, maybe they'd have gone with Orton (champion) vs Cena vs Punk in a triple threat, with Rock costing Cena the match in a similar fashion to what actually went down.

 

Considering how much of a legend Lawler has been in memphis it was the wrong decision what they did in the end. Lawler should have beaten Miz for the title right there at the PPV and dropped it the next night. Mind you when you look at how bad they pissed up Wrestlemania by having Lawler lose to Michael freaking Cole via reverse decision in Lawlers first and only wrestlemania match was just dire.

 

Just so they can further the feud for Over the Limit for Bret to ref the match. Just a terrible decision mind you im suprised in 94 they didnt go with Lawler/Savage for that show how they used to interact on commentary for each other or when Lawler wrestled on Raw teased a fight with randy.

[BillThompson]

Holy crap this is from the Observer and it sounds terrible.

 

 

There were suggestions this week of putting a mask on Adrian Neville and making him a kids character based on Mighty Mouse. Neville is expected to be the next NXT performer brought up to the main roster as they are batting around ideas for him.

 

I have two takeaways from this,

 

1) Adds more fuel to Vince not having any idea about NXT guys because he doesn't watch NXT. Also adds fuel to the idea that Dunn may watch, and wants to sabotage.

 

2) Even if #1 is true, Neville is a shitty pro wrestler, he needs a gimmick to be remotely interesting so this doesn't bother me in the slightest.

[goc]

I've seen people say they should just bring Neville up as Evan Bourne 2.0 but I don't think he has anywhere near the natural babyface charisma and selling ability that Bourne had so I don't see that working. He'd be much more Justin Gabriel than Evan Bourne if they called him up as just regular ol' Adrian Neville.