Current WWE

[Loss]

Moved all the Coral-Miz talk to Pro Wrestling Mostly. Sorry for opening that up.

[C.S.]

Did Miz actually draw as champion? It seems to me that people were paying to see Orton, Cena, Rock, etc. He didn't actually headline a PPV as champion until Wrestlemania XXVII, which was all about Rock and Cena anyway.

 

I blame the WWE's horrendous writing for this. Same sort of thought process that relegated WWE Undisputed Champion Jericho to 4th place in his own feud behind Trips, Steph, and their pet poodle. Just awful garbage all around.

 

When Miz cashed in Money in the Bank and won the title, it was a HUGE moment.

 

CM Punk was butthurt that it wasn't him vs. Cena that year, but quite frankly, it shouldn't have been. Miz was far more over and entertaining at that point, and felt like a much bigger star. The CM Punk documentary, which was one of the best otherwise, made him look like a whiny asshole in that regard. Punk moaned about not getting the match, bashed Miz, etc. Miz, meanwhile, praised Punk on the same documentary. Like I said, Miz is a great spokesperson for the company and always shines in those segments. Even Daniel Bryan comes across as a smark douchebag when he's a talking head, but Miz is great.

 

As for Bray, I think a lot of the problem is that the message is off.

 

Overrated character and wrestler. His message is indeed off, but the biggest problem is that he doesn't feel like a real person in any way. Being a "cartoon" (for lack of a better word) was fine for something like Undertaker, but it doesn't work at all with Bray.

[DMJ]

Right now, Cody Rhodes doesn't look like a future WWE Champion...but there was a time, in 2013, that he seemed poised for a breakout feud with the Authority.

 

I could also see Miz getting another run sometime. He's been doing quite good this year, essentially wrestling handicap matches every night. In-ring, he's never going to be confused with (Insert Beloved Technician Here) but he's getting to that point where is consistently able to deliver 3-stars. When you add more sizzle, more build, and more theatrics to a 3-star match, you get a main event in today's WWE.

 

Luke Harper may not be a WWE Champion...but I could see him in a "main event level" program. He's a monster of a guy, he's very competent in the ring, and whoever the babyface ace is over the next few years is going to need monsters to slay. Big Show, Henry, and Kane won't last forever and all have gotten multiple runs in the main event over the past 5 years.

 

Mark Henry and JBL were definitely not on anybody's radar as potential WWE Champions in the late 90s and Henry was involved in a romance angle with an 80 year old woman (and a transvestite too, IIRC). Hell, Fake Diesel was a worse gimmick than anyone on that list.

 

I think the larger point you were trying to make, though, is one I do agree with - that the writing/booking/promoting has done a miserable job of keeping character motivations and arcs consistent, which has led to meaningless rivalries and no upward promotion of anyone. Fans don't want to get behind anyone because everyone is on a treadmill.

[sek69]

Don't get me wrong I'm happy they're doing it, but it's surprising such a looks-first company like WWE is putting Luke Harper in such a prime position.

[The Thread Killer]

That would make sense if they didn't do it with every single of their upper mid carders every few months. It isn't just building these people up for Rusev. Swagger's last push can be perhaps explained away like that. The others? They have been pushed and depushed to baffling extremes with no consistency whatsoever.

 

Even Jack Swagger himself went from a massive push to champion to massive depush jobbing to everyone, to massive push with Wrestlemania title match to massive depush jobbing to everyone to big push to build him up for Rusev to jobbing to jobbing to everyone. What a pointless, uncreative cycle.

 

Wasn't one of the reasons that Swagger got de-pushed is because he got busted for a DWI? I'm not disagreeing with you though - WWE booking baffles me, it makes no sense whatsoever when it comes to building and maintaining new stars.

[SteveJRogers]

 

Did Miz actually draw as champion? It seems to me that people were paying to see Orton, Cena, Rock, etc. He didn't actually headline a PPV as champion until Wrestlemania XXVII, which was all about Rock and Cena anyway.

 

I blame the WWE's horrendous writing for this. Same sort of thought process that relegated WWE Undisputed Champion Jericho to 4th place in his own feud behind Trips, Steph, and their pet poodle. Just awful garbage all around.

 

When Miz cashed in Money in the Bank and won the title, it was a HUGE moment.

 

CM Punk was butthurt that it wasn't him vs. Cena that year, but quite frankly, it shouldn't have been. Miz was far more over and entertaining at that point, and felt like a much bigger star. The CM Punk documentary, which was one of the best otherwise, made him look like a whiny asshole in that regard. Punk moaned about not getting the match, bashed Miz, etc. Miz, meanwhile, praised Punk on the same documentary. Like I said, Miz is a great spokesperson for the company and always shines in those segments. Even Daniel Bryan comes across as a smark douchebag when he's a talking head, but Miz is great.

 

 

Reading this kind of hits as to why Miz has so much "X-Pac Heat."

 

Its not so much that he isn't that good of a wrestler, or that he came from reality television, or that his character is too much of a smarmy asshole, its that he is the Wesley Crusher of the WWE!

 

He is a real life Mary Sue type of character that is loathed in all genres of fiction.

[anarchistxx]

The biggest problem Miz has is that he doesn't look like a threat, especially at main event level. He doesn't carry himself like a threat either. Even when you are playing a weasly, cowardly, fluky champion you need to seem like you can be dangerous and take advantage of mistakes.

 

I don't find him remotely interesting, entertaining or believable, although he is a good ambassador for the company.

[C.S.]

The biggest problem Miz has is that he doesn't look like a threat, especially at main event level. He doesn't carry himself like a threat either. Even when you are playing a weasly, cowardly, fluky champion you need to seem like you can be dangerous and take advantage of mistakes.

 

I don't find him remotely interesting, entertaining or believable, although he is a good ambassador for the company.

 

That's a fair point.

 

But did HBK look like a threat either? Not even remotely.

 

But because HBK is an IWC darling (not around these parts, I realize), people will overlook that about him but criticize Miz for the same.

 

Obviously, HBK is bigger than Miz and better in the ring, but he does not come across as a threat at all IMO.

[Loss]

Shawn is a threat because he wins and because he is booked to take overcome huge amounts of punishment. Shawn has absolutely been pushed as a threat for most of the past 20+ years - not a physically imposing threat, but a guy capable of winning any match anytime. All of Miz's wins are treated as flukes and just about all of Shawn's wins have been treated as well-deserved and earned. That's the difference.

 

It's amazing when you look back at Shawn's career that he was able to go toe-to-toe credibly with guys much bigger than him despite not having any real hurty-looking offense and working super light. When you really look at why, it comes down to his won-loss record. Shawn Michaels won, so Shawn was credible. If Miz won, Miz would be credible too.

[goc]

Now I know a lot of people are coming down off the "Michaels is the GOAT" ledge but can we recognize that he's much better than The Miz? The Miz just isn't good enough to be booked as anything other than a fluky Honky Tonk Man type champion. I thought his title reign failed because they didn't go far ENOUGH in making him a weak looking fluke champion and tried to make him seem like a threat ending a lot of matches with the Skull Crushing Finale.

[anarchistxx]

That's a fair point.

 

But did HBK look like a threat either? Not even remotely.

 

Not a fair comparison at all. HBK had a lot more believable offence, dives that could conceivably take down a bigger opponent. He was sold as being more athletic and quick, able to absorb huge amounts of punishment and come out of nowhere with a devastating kick or a cross body or a flash pin. He wasn't afraid to take a huge risk to win the match. Which of these attributes does Miz possess?

 

It does come down partly to booking. That isn't the only reason though - Shawn carried himself like a threat, someone who could go toe to toe with bigger wrestlers, who had the smarts and ability to take them out even though he lacked size and power.

[Matt D]

I think more than any of that, Shawn KNEW (as well as most wrestlers ever) how to make himself look good (sometimes for the sake of the match and others to the detriment of his opponent). As a babyface, he'd use the kip up/hulk up comeback. He'd sell big but he'd also fight back frequently only to get cut off and as a heel he was a lot better of taking the match in a more compelling and imposing way than Miz is capable of. Winning helped but it's a bit like what Austin always gets on Ziggler's case about when it comes to being a force in exchanges.

[Jesse Ewiak]

I think it comes down to this - none of us saw Shawn Michaels act like an idiot at 20 years old w/ a bunch of other 20 year olds. Yeah, the whole Miz thing in the Real World probably got him a look from the WWE in the first place, but it also means, in the back of most people's mind, they don't buy him as a 'tough guy.' Even putting aside how he wrestles, there is no believably to Miz being enough of a badass to even be a credible chickenshit heel at the main even level.

[C.S.]

When Miz was pushed as a main eventer, he should've been booked like Edge IMO - an opportunist who makes use of weapons in the most brutal and barbaric manner possible...chairs, the Money in the Bank briefcase, etc. That would make up for any perceived "softness" in the ring. The early characterization that was all wrong for Jericho - hitting Chyna with a hammer, etc. - might have worked for Miz.

[Loss]

I think the half wrestler-half manager role, a la Eddie Gilbert, might have worked for Miz too.

[anarchistxx]

 

 

I think it comes down to this - none of us saw Shawn Michaels act like an idiot at 20 years old w/ a bunch of other 20 year olds.

 

How many of us even watched that? I didn't, had zero clue about his past with reality television except what was brought up on screen. Wrestlers have overcome worse perceptions than that to look a threat.

[C.S.]

 

I think it comes down to this - none of us saw Shawn Michaels act like an idiot at 20 years old w/ a bunch of other 20 year olds.

 

How many of us even watched that? I didn't, had zero clue about his past with reality television except what was brought up on screen. Wrestlers have overcome worse perceptions than that to look a threat.

 

 

Agreed. I never watched it. I assume this was more of an issue with locker room bullies like Bradshaw and Benoit than most of the audience.

[iamthedoctor]

The biggest problem Miz has is that he doesn't look like a threat, especially at main event level. He doesn't carry himself like a threat either. Even when you are playing a weasly, cowardly, fluky champion you need to seem like you can be dangerous and take advantage of mistakes.

 

I don't find him remotely interesting, entertaining or believable, although he is a good ambassador for the company.

 

Never understood why he went over Cena at mania. Just a terrible run and had no business with the World Title.

 

Considering he couldnt even beat Lawler without outside help during his reign says something. MITB Winner has always been something of a cheap way to win a title except RVD's which was a actual match to just jump a champ whos knocked out, I recall he needed help to beat Lawler in the TLC match on Raw as well as outside help to beat Orton at the Rumble and Cole for the Chamber. Then you get to Mania and the ending was just dumb to put Rock on top of that PPV, I know it was just to get even with Cena from Raw but the main event of the biggest PPV of the year was a terrible decision to do. At least do it after the match is over if you cant wait till Raw.

 

Miz's reign has to be one of the worst ever reigns in history.

[Fantastic]

At the time, wasn't putting the title on Lawler, if only for one day, discussed? If so, that really shows a lack of confidence in Miz as champion, if they were seriously considering having him lose the title to Jerry Lawler.

 

I'd imagine if they went through with this, that Miz would not have received a rematch and somebody else would go over Lawler the next night on Raw and faced Cena at Mania. Hell, maybe they'd have gone with Orton (champion) vs Cena vs Punk in a triple threat, with Rock costing Cena the match in a similar fashion to what actually went down.

[Grimmas]

At the time, wasn't putting the title on Lawler, if only for one day, discussed? If so, that really shows a lack of confidence in Miz as champion, if they were seriously considering having him lose the title to Jerry Lawler.

 

I'd imagine if they went through with this, that Miz would not have received a rematch and somebody else would go over Lawler the next night on Raw and faced Cena at Mania. Hell, maybe they'd have gone with Orton (champion) vs Cena vs Punk in a triple threat, with Rock costing Cena the match in a similar fashion to what actually went down.

Mania headlined with Cena-Lawler that year would had been AWESOME!

[shoe]

Holy crap this is from the Observer and it sounds terrible.

 

 

There were suggestions this week of putting a mask on Adrian Neville and making him a kids character based on Mighty Mouse. Neville is expected to be the next NXT performer brought up to the main roster as they are batting around ideas for him.

[Johnny Sorrow]

If they make a villain based on Oil Can Harry then I'm all for it.

[sek69]

I just like how earlier in the issue there's a story on how morale is low after Vince buried the whole roster while everyone gets stop and start pushes, and then you find out they want to take one of the top stars in developmental and literally make him a cartoon character.

[Matt D]

Yeah, so I'd be a million times more excited if Mighty Mouse comes out at the Rumble than Adrian freaking Neville.

[ButchReedMark]

They should have "Here I come to save the day" play at the rumble, he comes out, and Lawler piledrives him as he thinks it's a reincarnation of Kaufman followed by Neville wearing a neck brace for the rest of his career acting like Bob Orton Jr.