Reactions to the Honorable Mention List, Part 2

[Death From Above]

Chono is about 300 spots too high unless the criteria used is hevily skewed towards how cool someone's outfit, entrance and theme music were.

 

I've been over this before, but if one has access to all the 1990-1994 TV from ALl and New japan one of the things that really stands out is that at the start of the decade, Chono might be the most "trusted" heavyweight in New Japan week to week. What I mean is he's the one guy they could throw out there with just about anybody and be guaranteed a good match that filled 10-15 minutes whether he was working with vets like Choshu, his own peers in Hashimoto, guys "below" him like Super Strong Machine, random foreigners like Norton or Mike Enos/Wayne Bloom etc. He's really absolutely outstanding in that period, as good as anybody. Also both a great singles and tag guy in that period. Reliably as good as anyone in the company in that stretch. He could work with a variety of opponents and was probably my favourite worker in terms of grasping how to handle TV matches in New Japan in that period.

 

He really falls apart-post injury. Badly. I didn't vote for him because there's just too many years that he's a shadow of what he could have been, but the idea he's some kind of joke candidate is absolute stone cold nonsense if one takes a brief peak and values it more than an overall average.

[Matt D]

I've never seen the Strongbow match. I'll try to track it down.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

If Brody just sold even a little bit, I could see him possibly making the bottom of my list. But watching him just do his thing and never sell got old for me fast.

[Matt D]

There's no one who did more to hurt matches than Brody. How does that rate?

[Eegah]

If Brody just sold even a little bit, I could see him possibly making the bottom of my list. But watching him just do his thing and never sell got old for me fast.

Yeah, he had the tools for sure. If he just applied himself as a worker I would have enjoyed him. Ive given him far too many looks, especially in old All Japan teaming with guys I love and ive enjoyed him maybe once or twice.

[Childs]

There's no way in hell anyone would make my top 10 off three matches. The Jerry West quote was about Kobe as a prospect worth drafting. He wasn't saying he'd put him in the HOF off those 15 minutes.

 

Jack Brisco was the guy I rated highest off the least and even there, we have complete versions of classic matches from his prime.

 

Alan Sarjeant was probably the guy I came closest to ranking off fewer than 10 matches, and I ultimately couldn't do it and really didn't come close.

 

Not bagging on those who look at the issue differently. But I tried to be careful with the limited footage guys, I guess in part because I know of so many workers who could be judged as spectacular based on the right selection of matches.

[Ricky Jackson]

I've never seen the Strongbow match. I'll try to track it down.

I think he may be referring to Frankie Hill, the future Jules Strongbow, and a match with him and Robinson vs Stevens and Patterson that is on the AWA WWE dvd

[joeg]

I think Brody gets a bad rap. I can say with a straight face his match vs Flair in St Louis is probably my favorite Flair formula type matches. I can also say I pretty much loved everything involving the Funks vs Brody and Hansen in AJPW. I know many people find it over rated, I love that stuff. And to say Brody doesn't sell isn't true. To me he's like Inoki and Mascaras, where if he respected a guy or thought he could make money with a guy he would sell for him. If not he would go out of his way to look invincible at their expense.

[Loss]

I would never come right out and say that live viewing experiences should not factor into this, because I don't think that's for me to decide. But it is my opinion that they shouldn't. I always saw this as a project about recorded footage, where theoretically someone else can go seek out whatever you watched to make your ballot and then decide on it for themselves.

[joeg]

I think live viewing impacted my ranking of the more recent guys.

[Manatee]

I think Brody gets a bad rap. I can say with a straight face his match vs Flair in St Louis is probably my favorite Flair formula type matches. I can also say I pretty much loved everything involving the Funks vs Brody and Hansen in AJPW. I know many people find it over rated, I love that stuff. And to say Brody doesn't sell isn't true. To me he's like Inoki and Mascaras, where if he respected a guy or thought he could make money with a guy he would sell for him. If not he would go out of his way to look invincible at their expense.

He also bumped and sold a lot more when he was a face.

 

There's no one who did more to hurt matches than Brody. How does that rate?

I've seen the match with Luger in the cage. Are there other examples like that or is your point just that he sucks and ruins every match he's in?

[Childs]

I don't think you can ask people to unsee whatever live shows they've attended. It's not as if we all have equal access to recorded footage either. You just can't let go of your utopian dreams

[jackwebb]

Confession to make. I have Brody, CM Punk and Okada as my vanity picks at 98, 99, and 100. Don't ask me to justify any of them with anything other than "well I like that guy"

At least they are your bottom 3. Mine ended up being my top 2 since I have such a subjective list and my only criteria was who would I rather watch. At this point I'm glad I will be in the mountains in the morning and will miss when they are revealed. If someone as good as Bret Hart can get such a negative response to being a top 5 guy. I can't pretend I don't see why most will loathe the picks. I acknowledged in the what did you learn about your fandom thread that my picks are a complete joke when you take great matches into account. I own up to the picks though. If you don't like what I love I can't blame you. Just be thankful you don't have to watch it. Especially the top guy. As he sometimes would embody the best of professional wrestling. Other times the worst. Kind of ridiculous I ended up viewing both as a positive since I'm entertained either way. I suppose score one for the bad guy should mean bad in behavior. Not work quality.

[Childs]

Is jackwebb setting us up for a Scott Hall No. 1 vote? GWE you are a wacky mistress.

[El-P]

I'll find new pics before I post number 198, because 198 stinks.

 

You sure delivered. Randy Orton ? WTF people. The synthesis of everything I hate about what WWE work and presentation has evolved into the 00's. The black hole. The only thing " cool" about him he stole from DDP (let's be honest, he does the entire Diamond Cutter from nowhere gimmick). Fakest wrestler I've ever seen. Talk about wrestling like a robot, here we are. The Viper routine is the apex of robotic WWE manufactured bullshit. But his third generation, so he's great.

 

Kudo didn't drop that much, all things considered, which is surprising in a way, FMW being a niche (consider how poorly Gannosuke did compared to his actual talent).

[Dylan Waco]

I doubt you'd agree with me El-P, but Orton might be the ultimate "guy with lots of great matches who I don't think is great."

[El-P]

I doubt you'd agree with me El-P, but Orton might be the ultimate "guy with lots of great matches who I don't think is great."

 

Maybe so, since he had so many opportunities. The point I may not agree with is about the matches being actually great or not. But it's not like I'm gonna watch any Randy Orton match on purpose at this point.

[pol]

Point was more that he's been ace for a decade in a high profile company so his popularity really shouldn't be shocking. To be clear I was not trying to claim Dragon Gate has been#2 for a decade my wording was unclear I see that now. I have also heard Dragon Gate draws way better outside of Tokyo than DDT and they have always had a much larger presence in other countries

 

DG draws better outside of Tokyo because they focus their business outside of Tokyo. You could argue that DDT finding the success they have in the crowded Tokyo market is more impressive than what DG has done, even if DG draws more. That's neither here nor there as regards this project as far as I'm concerned, just pointing it out.

[Jesse Ewiak]

Alan naming Mochizuki his #4 wrestler of all time is the most Alan thing I can think of when it comes to this list and say that in a positive way.

[JerryvonKramer]

Oh FFS, my fifth soldier was Dennis Condrey.

[elliott]

Somebody please explain the Osamu Nishimura picture to me. Is Osamu Nishimura my favorite wrestler and no one ever told me?

 

aka the Why the Fuck is there a giant squid costume? i need to see all of that.

 

edit: I see now that this was covered. Thank you, world.

[Timbo Slice]

My fifth was Kudo, who I'm actually surprised went that high considering she wasn't considered on the same level as her peers compared to what a lot of people liked in joshi. In some aspects, I think she was better than Onita even, which makes me wonder when Onita's gonna go.

[JerryvonKramer]

Would love to hear an explanation of ranking Ray Stevens at #12 that isn't just based on reputation among old wrestlers. None of the footage I've seen on him is all that impressive. At least for guys like Gorgeous George or Buddy Rogers you can actually look at footage and see why so many people called them great.

I feel I watched more Stevens than a lot of people and yeah there's nothing there and it was a good couple of discs worth of stuff. Bock carried that team.

 

I'd give anything to see the Patterson team though, anything.

[JerryvonKramer]

I had Stevens at #39. I've seen less than 10 of his matches but in those few matches you can tell he's special.

Which ones are they?

[JerryvonKramer]

I think Brody gets a bad rap. I can say with a straight face his match vs Flair in St Louis is probably my favorite Flair formula type matches. I can also say I pretty much loved everything involving the Funks vs Brody and Hansen in AJPW. I know many people find it over rated, I love that stuff. And to say Brody doesn't sell isn't true. To me he's like Inoki and Mascaras, where if he respected a guy or thought he could make money with a guy he would sell for him. If not he would go out of his way to look invincible at their expense.

 

For what it's worth, I agree with some of this. I think the issue for a lot of us is that he's just nowhere near the worker that the legend would have us believe, and unlike Stevens, the footage is there.

 

He has a sick knee drop though. And is in at least four or five ****+ matches in AJPW.