AEW Fyter Fest

[Zoo Enthusiast]

18 minutes ago, El-P said:

I noticed a way to show disdain toward a worker is to use his former name. Plenty of people do it in various context. Funny that.

And well, apparently Spears was a mentor to Cody when he started in OVW, and Cody never forgot. So yeah, maybe he want to give back now that he can. 

Give him a no-show job as a producer.  Everyone wins.

[PeteF3]

Or use him in the undercard where he belongs. Terry Taylor didn't get a big push on WWE TV when HHH acquired more power.

[Steve T]

56 minutes ago, El-P said:

And well, apparently Spears was a mentor to Cody when he started in OVW, and Cody never forgot. So yeah, maybe he want to give back now that he can. 

That also sounds like a ready made, reality based angle that they can capitalize on. 'I was your mentor and you forgot about me after you made it big.' That is exactly the stuff I will tune in to see. 

[El-P]

Agreed

And why is it different from Dustin, who hasn't done jackshit in eons and was pretty much a JTTS in his latest WWE years ? Who also in 50 years old. Spears is 38, has a history with Cody, never could really showcase his stuff in WWE because he got over when he wasn't supposed to (wasn't he a really solid worker ?), he probably won't be a main event player after this feud with Cody anyway (hell, that feud is probably not main event to begin with either).

People just want to hate throwing the "It's like old TNA" card, it seems. Like I said. It's their second show ever. Thus far, I think it's pretty safe to say it's been pretty damn good and successful overall. Some stuff won't work (Dark Whatever surely doesn't seem like a very hot idea thus far), some stuff will fail, some stuff will suck, like in every pro-wrestling company ever. But going all up in arms because "Tye Dillinger is getting a main event push, LolAEWTNA" is kinda ridiculous at this point of development of the company. 

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Is anyone up in arms about it?

[sek69]

16 minutes ago, El-P said:

People just want to hate throwing the "It's like old TNA" card, it seems. Like I said. It's their second show ever. Thus far, I think it's pretty safe to say it's been pretty damn good and successful overall. Some stuff won't work (Dark Whatever surely doesn't seem like a very hot idea thus far), some stuff will fail, some stuff will suck, like in every pro-wrestling company ever. But going all up in arms because "Tye Dillinger is getting a main event push, LolAEWTNA" is kinda ridiculous at this point of development of the company. 

This. One of the things I like about AEW is they don't seem to be afraid to try shit, some of which isn't going to work of course. It's getting kind of silly to see some people act like anything that falls flat means AEW is the new TNA.  Also until the TNT show starts, the only vehicle they have to further storylines is the Being the Elite show. It's also silly to see people get mad that they do stuff on shows that is meant for the BTE audience. Of course they do, it's like getting mad at WWE for doing something on one of their PPVs that was built on Raw. 

[SomethingSavage]

Spears and Cody don't just have a mentor/protege relationship. They were a steady tag team (and champs) in OVW, where they also eventually split up and feuded.

I think that Cherry chick was involved, along with Cliff Compton and Sim Snuka. I could be mixing that up with some of the later OVW stuff, but I'm pretty sure I'm remembering that right.

Overall, this show was okay. Nothing outstanding to me. Just alright. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Impact's Slammiversary is way better & superior to this on every level, to be honest. But that's not a conversation anyone is prepared to have or even acknowledge, so it is what it is.

I don't get the Librarian stuff. It doesn't feel like a nostalgic throwback to the Genius. It doesn't even pack the same fun vibe that the Rhodes Scholars had for a brief moment there in 2012/13. It's just kind of lame and insufferable.

And that's a shame. Because I dug the guy as Pretty Peter Avalon. Why can't he just be that? I understand the necessity of updating a look or refreshing a character, but nobody's even seen the dude on any big stage yet.

Pretty Peter Avalon felt more like him being in his own lane. A scrawny pest of a heel, constantly pissing people off and pretending like he's some Adonis is fucking aces. Compared to this Librarian horse shit, it's gold.

Double Or Nothing left me excited and anxious to see what's next. This left me feeling like I'd watched a fairly decent wrestling show in 2019, and that's it.

It definitely felt like it was fine-tuned and tailored for the live crowd, but that didn't translate to my own viewing experience in any substantial way. PWG is sort of the best case scenario (and flipside) of that situation, where the energy & the atmosphere of the "book for the live crowd" philosophy really resonates and carries over well.

I'm not casting judgment on AEW as a whole based on the back of two shows. But I can safely say this wasn't anything special and is absolutely not worth recommending to anyone who is on the fence about checking it out. Pass on this & just wait around for All Out. That would be my suggestion.

[PeteF3]

42 minutes ago, El-P said:

And why is it different from Dustin, who hasn't done jackshit in eons and was pretty much a JTTS in his latest WWE years ? Who also in 50 years old.

It's different because even in the oppressive land of the WWE we could see what a brilliant all-around performer Dustin was, and how he could get over almost anything just with his acting skills even as his ring skills theoretically deteriorate with age. We didn't see any of that with Dillinger at any level, just a novelty gimmick that was kind of cute because it was on an undercard guy.

[FMKK]

40 minutes ago, SomethingSavage said:

Spears and Cody don't just have a mentor/protege relationship. They were a steady tag team (and champs) in OVW, where they also eventually split up and feuded.

I think that Cherry chick was involved, along with Cliff Compton and Sim Snuka. I could be mixing that up with some of the later OVW stuff, but I'm pretty sure I'm remembering that right.

Overall, this show was okay. Nothing outstanding to me. Just alright. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Impact's Slammiversary is way better & superior to this on every level, to be honest. But that's not a conversation anyone is prepared to have or even acknowledge, so it is what it is.

I don't get the Librarian stuff. It doesn't feel like a nostalgic throwback to the Genius. It doesn't even pack the same fun vibe that the Rhodes Scholars had for a brief moment there in 2012/13. It's just kind of lame and insufferable.

And that's a shame. Because I dug the guy as Pretty Peter Avalon. Why can't he just be that? I understand the necessity of updating a look or refreshing a character, but nobody's even seen the dude on any big stage yet.

Pretty Peter Avalon felt more like him being in his own lane. A scrawny pest of a heel, constantly pissing people off and pretending like he's some Adonis is fucking aces. Compared to this Librarian horse shit, it's gold.

Double Or Nothing left me excited and anxious to see what's next. This left me feeling like I'd watched a fairly decent wrestling show in 2019, and that's it.

It definitely felt like it was fine-tuned and tailored for the live crowd, but that didn't translate to my own viewing experience in any substantial way. PWG is sort of the best case scenario (and flipside) of that situation, where the energy & the atmosphere of the "book for the live crowd" philosophy really resonates and carries over well.

I'm not casting judgment on AEW as a whole based on the back of two shows. But I can safely say this wasn't anything special and is absolutely not worth recommending to anyone who is on the fence about checking it out. Pass on this & just wait around for All Out. That would be my suggestion.

It's worth remembering I guess that this was a sold show for that CEO event so maybe that is part of the reason that it was catered for the attendees in particular.

Of the four shows they've done/have scheduled, it's clear that this was the minor one so I don't think I'll get carried away with any judgements on it positive or negative. I still have enough optimism that the next two will be good. Cody and Dustin vs the Bucks is a match I'm quite looking forward to.

[Stiva]

Haven't read most of the thread but typing as I go. Whoever thought the bulk of that pre-show was a good idea needs sitting down and told otherwise. They do know the point of the pre-show is to drive some last minute buys, right? Yeah, it was free in the US but it wasn't in Europe and I'm not sure 40 minutes of badly written, badly timed, badly performed and badly executed comedy is the way to do it. The Librarian and Dark Order business died a death, the CEO match was putrid and that documentary segment was like a bunch of teenagers filming an Office skit on their phones. It all felt like a really bad idea that someone should have stopped in its tracks during the planning stage. 

Daniels/CIMA was a good opener and it's immediately obvious how better the balance is on commentary this time around. They're not stepping on each other, Excalibur is doing a great job at bringing up their history and putting across the story of two veterans who have seen it all. Right guy won going into Fight for the Fallen and it's a disgrace that it's taken until 2019 for CIMA to get a featured run in a big US promotion.

Women's three way was really great. Loved the opening spots where Nyla was just destroying both of them and all of the one-on-one portions were really solid. I agree that Nyla looked great, bumped around really well, had a real expressive heel charisma and because the other two were so small, all of her stuff looked like it was snapping them in two. For a match built around monster spots, the spots were all good. Nyla/Kong will be great once Kong gets back into wrestling fitness.

MJF seems like he was custom-made to cut that scorched earth promo on video games and he's basically guaranteed to be a star since he's so good on the stick. I have a good feeling about Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus, purely based on Jungle Boy being perched on Luchasaurus' shoulders like father and son. I'm digging Jungle Boy as 2019 Chris Champion, in general. Really solid showcase for all 4, even if Page and Havoc do very little for me. You can't deny Page's presence though, he's going to be around the top of the card for a reason.

Cody/Allin was pretty fantastic and just about the best way to put Allin over I can think of. I still don't think Cody has enough interesting meat to fill the early parts of his control segments but this thing just kicked into overdrive once he started selling the hand and arm. There was nothing fancy about Darby's work on it but it all looked nastier because of it; straight up punching the hand was my highlight. Allin's bumping is nothing sort of insane; the bump on the ring-apron legit left me open-mouthed and letting yourself be kicked whilst locked in a bodybag is a fucking crazy thing to do. I had a feeling that a draw was coming in one of the matches once they started announcing time limits but this was absolutely the right place to do it.

The Spears/Cody angle was real uncomfortable, considering how long it's been since we saw an unprotected chairshot. Was the cut hardway or did he blade the back of his head when the focus was away from him? Either way, a hell of an angle and I liked how they sold the impact of one chair to the head. I thought Dillinger/Spears was pretty underutilised through all of his WWE run so I hope he gets a good run here but I hope the post-match doesn't take away from the shine on Allin.

I dug the fighting game references at the start of the 6-man and if anyone is going to pull them correctly, it would be Omega. As a whole though, the match was what you'd expect; some ridiculous flying from Fenix, crazy-double teams and everything else that comes with the territory. I can understand wanting to run these kinds of matches a lot because they do them really well but going forward, I hope they mix it up slightly.

I LOVED them making the distinction for the main event. Just a little touch that doesn't take much but makes all the difference in putting it over. Moxley is so determined to distance himself from his WWE persona that, because he's so intent on selling himself as a lunatic, Joey Janela actually comes off as more of a crazy motherfucker by leaping off a ladder. Moxley hitting the atomic drop into the tacks was pretty phenomenal and like I said, Moxley's entire run seems to be fully focused on Vince "That's you"! You're weird" conversation and spending the next 24 monhs proving him wrong. As a whole, the show was solid as hell and, with the Cody angle, there's some real proof that this lot can do some week-to-week TV. 

[Stiva]

Also, Cody is clearly the best worker in that superkick, backflip nonsense group because everyone has come out of the last two AEW shows raving about his matches. 

[NintendoLogic]

Nobody here is blindly negative toward AEW or wants them to fail (other than Herodes, I guess), but wanting them to succeed doesn't mean sticking your head in the sand and ignoring problematic tendencies. To wit, this is the second event in a row that the preshow has been a disaster. The tag match was fine as a showcase for Private Party, but the rest was irredeemable dogshit. The Dark Order and the librarian crap need to be either drastically retooled or dropped entirely, because they both went over like a lead balloon and doubling down on something that clearly isn't working is a McMahon tendency. And some random schmuck (which is what Jebailey is to anyone outside the FGC) having a comedy hardcore match and walking away without a scratch makes it all look like fake play fighting that anyone off the street can do with a bit of practice. If that had to be on the show, it should have been a dark match solely for the live audience. The main show was much better (and even then, matches with barbed wire and thumbtacks are going to drive away far more fans than they attract), but that's part of the problem. The preshow is going to be a lot of people's first glimpse of the product, so the focus needs to be on appealing to a wider audience and not goofing off with self-indulgent inside jokes. I guarantee you there were plenty of lapsed fans who checked out the preshow and will probably never give AEW another chance based on what they saw.

[El-P]

Ok, let's be honest, since when people apart from hardcores who can't get enough pro-wrestling in their lives actually watch pre-shows anyway ? And since when people watch pre-show and think "Hey, I'm gonna buy this PPV/event because that pre-show was really excellent !" ? Come on now, let's be real. Pre-shows are a joke, especially these days. Either you're interested in the real deal, either you're not. If pre-show mattered, WWE events would sink (Wait, well, they do but that's not what I mean).

[goodhelmet]

27 minutes ago, El-P said:

Ok, let's be honest, since when people apart from hardcores who can't get enough pro-wrestling in their lives actually watch pre-shows anyway ? And since when people watch pre-show and think "Hey, I'm gonna buy this PPV/event because that pre-show was really excellent !" ? Come on now, let's be real. Pre-shows are a joke, especially these days. Either you're interested in the real deal, either you're not. If pre-show mattered, WWE events would sink (Wait, well, they do but that's not what I mean).

That's a problem in itself.  If you are going to claim to win back fans and actually call your pre-show "The Buy In", then your pre-show should kick ass. It should make someone want to buy in to the show. These are goals clearly stated by those in charge of the company. For lack of a bettet term, I'm already all in. I like mistakes in production and the fact that not everymatch feels the same amd that the announcers aren't cardboard cutouts. However,  if your goal is to get someone to buy in, and not just change the perception of what wrestling is, but also believe that the free matches will entice someone to buy in to your product, then you can't put your worst shit on the pre-show. If the pre-show doesn't matter then don't have one. If it matters then make it important. 

[FMKK]

I'm finally watching this - just about half way through the main now - and I agree with those saying the Cody match was the best yet again. Guy has just become a really good storyteller in a business where that sometimes seems like a lost art because workrate matches have taken precedence. The following match was the perfect example of that.

[Ricky Jackson]

Watched this afternoon. Not always with 100% attention, mind you. I thought it was a pretty good show, especially because the booking is clearly focused and everything is building to something else. Love MJF. Really enjoyed Cody vs Allin. Warms my heart to see a meaningful 20-minute draw in 2019. Say what you will about the chair shot, that was a simple and effective little angle to get Spears over and set up a feud with Cody. Moxley is the wrestling story of the year, symbolizing Freedom (from WWE) and having a blast in a bunch of crazy matches. Can't wait for his match vs Omega and All Out in general. I'll be away for the next show, but will definitely check out Rhodes bros vs Bucks. So far so good for AEW imo 

[Coffey]

 

2 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

Nobody here is blindly negative toward AEW or wants them to fail (other than Herodes, I guess), but wanting them to succeed doesn't mean sticking your head in the sand and ignoring problematic tendencies. 

There was a movie that came out in 2017 called 47 Meters Down. It was not received well by critics. It's about two sisters on vacation that get trapped underwater in a shark cage. No a-list actors. Director I've never heard of. Small, indie film. 

Reading reviews of it, the amount of people that compared it to JAWS was staggering. One of the greatest movies of all-time. By one of the most famous directors of all-time. From 1975, a completely different era for movies.

It wasn't a fair comparison.

That's how I feel when reading some of the AEW reviews. AEW is 47 Meters Down & people are trying to compare it to fucking JAWS. WWE just had Wrestlemania number 35. They've been around forever doing their thing. How many AEW fans are even 35 years old? This was the second ever AEW show. There's going to be some bumps along the way. I'm not saying that people should overlook the bad, or turn a blind eye to shit but the cynicism makes it look like some people are begging for AEW to fail (like Herodes) & I can't for the life of me figure out why. Why would you not want pro-wrestling in the United States to have more options & more competition? As a fan. For the workers. It's just better for everyone. It goes the same both ways, too. Like, why would anyone want WWE to go away? Maybe for political reasons as they're a terrible corporation with shady business deals, but as far as maintaining the health of the state of pro-wrestling, more options & more competition should make for better shows.

But I guess AEW brought it upon themselves with the mocking of Triple H & all the people that were knocking WWE after Double or Nothing, so I guess you reap what you sow. AEW probably feel a lot of pressure to have to knock every show out of the park because if you fumble, it's going to be brutal. And this show definitely had some turnovers. That pre show was embarrassing. 

I would be OK with AEW building around MJF & Moxley. I can't wait for AEW to show up on TNT because I think the company will thrive with weekly TV because I think their strong suit is going to be in the story telling & episodic television. Which, if I'm correct in that regard, that is what will get them noticed & pull people in. When you have that compelling soap-opera TV that can grab people's emotions. Like Cody Vs. Dustin did at Double or Nothing. The Shawn Spears thing tonight I think would have played so much better on TV. Right now, I think they're being way too insider & cutesy & doing a lot of "tee-hee, get it?" nonsense & they need to start looking at the bigger picture. Sooner rather than later. You need to grab the casual viewer. You need a big cable television audience, not just the fans that watch the YouTube shows or that know Kenny & The Bucks from Japan. And they're doing a piss poor job of telling potential new viewers who ANY of these people are so far. The commentators are pretty damn good, but we need video packages & promos & motives. Maybe they're just saving it for TV? I don't know. But a lot of guys are just looking like dorks right now.

[Cap]

I know I am late to the discussion here.

Generally speaking I really enjoyed the show. I thought it was a ton of fun for the most part and delivered in some really cool ways.

Before digging into a few specific things, I just love the overall aesthetic and pacing they are bringing. Matches are getting time, wrestlers up and down the card are getting a spotlight put on them during their matches, and they are doing lots of little things to set themselves apart. Does it all work perfectly? no. However, I'm really enjoying that this feels fresh. It builds off of what they did at Double or Nothing, but also was tweaked to fit the event. And I say that as someone who did not come to this particularly as a Bullet Club/Elite devotee. I will say that if there was one thing that still bugs me about the overall production it is the entrances. I think you really see it with a guy like Jimmy Havoc, who has such a presence when he walks out in most places. All the entrances (even the Elite') felt a little flat. Part of it is the room, but the problem existed on Double or Nothing too. I'd love for them to crank the music a bit, get some closer shots, build and ambiance.

I feel like Christopher Daniels has found some new life here. Maybe that isn't the right way to say it, but it feels like he has an extra gear lately. I have really enjoyed him on both shows and thought he and CIMA really kicked the show of well.

The women's three way getting time to develop and build dynamics between all three was really crucial. I felt like I had a better feel for all three of them after.

MJF is so clearly one of the standouts for this brand right now and every time he comes out and gets on the mic he shows. Just a star. Jungle Boy also has a strange charisma to him and I think he has been on the rise since Spring Break 3.  He and Luchasauras really could do some cool stuff. I love Jimmy Havoc but he felt sort of lost in the shuffle here. I'm looking forward to him breaking out of this upper mid card grouping and getting some time to shine in a more deliberate feud. Adam Page might be the one void in this roster for me. He just doesn't connect with me. He is a great athlete and a great wrestler, but he, himself seems somewhat contrived to me. I've always felt like this. Even in some of his best matches in NJPW, I just never could get excited about him. I don't know what it is. I want to like him and I am sure I am going to get plenty of chance to

If you told me a year ago that Cody Rhodes would be one of the stand-out wrestlers in 2019 I would have laughed. Honestly, if you told me that before Double or Nothing I would have laughed. He went out and had an absolute banger with his brother and then comes and is really the glue that holds a phenomenal match with Darby Allin together. Take nothing away from Darby here. He was awesome. he did Darby things, got his ass beat, had some great comebacks and hope spots, and was phenomenal bell to bell, but Cody was the star and he really elevated Darby. Which is crazy because I genuinely liked Darby Allin more than Cody before the match. 

The chair stuff has been beat to death around the interwebs. I'll leave it at this. I thought it was memorable, got people talking, and strapped a rocket to a feud we didn't know we wanted to see before hand. I don't want to see these kinds of chair shots all the time, but Cody is a grown ass man and professional and I can't be bothered to spend too much time contemplating his choices. If you have seen Josh Barenett's tweets on the matter, that is more or less how I feel about it.

This six man was what you would expect. It was a lot of fun. I enjoyed the Street Fighter references to kick things off.  The match itself delivered on the action. This isn't my absolute favorite type of wrestling, but it serves a lot of fans right now and I can definitely enjoy it. 

I for one liked them turning the lights off and washing their hands of the main event. People who were picking apart the non-sanctioned thing seemed to have missed three guys dressed as fucking video game characters coming out right before this. The match was good. I think this is where Moxley thrives. His brand of brawling and chaos looks more seemless here, where I think he sort of sticks out in a weird (not bad, but weird) way in NJPW. It had its high spots and was memorable. I think Janela made some new fans (in the same way Darby did earlier). Mission accomplished all around.

Omega beating on Moxley after was great. I love love love them giving Omega a heated, personal rivalry right out the gate and Moxley is the guy that take his sort of goofiness and sharpening for a program without losing the personality.  I am really excited to see where this goes and I hope we get a series of matches between the two. Its the closest thing to a "dream match" they have available to them (former IWGP Champ vs former WWE champ) and there is no great reason to not lean into that out of the gate while establish champions elsewhere on the card.

[C.S.]

On 6/30/2019 at 3:57 PM, PeteF3 said:

Or use him in the undercard where he belongs. Terry Taylor didn't get a big push on WWE TV when HHH acquired more power.

Strange comment, and strange backlash against Spears in general IMO. Nothing so far indicates that Spears is anything higher than midcard.

So far, Cody has faced Dustin (old veteran going for "one last ride"), Darby Allin (unknown quantity as far as AEW is concerned, but probably not a main eventer yet), and will be facing Spears (pre-show wrestler at DoN). 

Obviously, Cody isn't being programmed with top guys here, so to assume Spears is suddenly one makes no sense to me.

[Dale Wolfe]

Didn't really like the chair shot but the cody match was really great. Didnt think it was the best card but they do have ideas, which is something. 

[NintendoLogic]

The argument that the wrestlers are adults making their own decisions doesn't really work when the wrestler in question is part of management. It's pretty clear that the workers themselves aren't going to check themselves from taking unnecessary risks, so the pressure to rein things in has to come from up top. When one of the bosses is out there killing himself, it has the opposite effect.

[Cap]

That only works if we assume to know the professional environment and the management style Cody et al has and the relationships they have the roster. I think it is AT LEAST just as likely that they would be very averse to anyone under their employ taking the same sort of risk, but ultimately I just don't presume to know either way.

Like I said, I don't want to see them all the time. I think its pretty safe to say after the fallout that we wont be seeing this with regularity, but if we do I may check out and turn my attention elsewhere.

[sek69]

5 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

When one of the bosses is out there killing himself, it has the opposite effect.

When Hunter did the angle that left Roman covered in (fake) blood, it wasn't like that sent a message to the rest of WWE that it was now an okay thing to do. "Do as I say, not as I do" is one of the hallmarks of management in practically every line of business. 

[Mad Dog]

5 hours ago, C.S. said:

Strange comment, and strange backlash against Spears in general IMO. Nothing so far indicates that Spears is anything higher than midcard.

So far, Cody has faced Dustin (old veteran going for "one last ride"), Darby Allin (unknown quantity as far as AEW is concerned, but probably not a main eventer yet), and will be facing Spears (pre-show wrestler at DoN). 

Obviously, Cody isn't being programmed with top guys here, so to assume Spears is suddenly one makes no sense to me.

He has history with Spears too. They were tag champs in OVW so they can probably play up a brothers in arms or a mentor type relationship. I am also a little confused by the Spears thing because I think if he had not been in WWE he would have been in that Bullet Club circle.

[C.S.]

7 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

He has history with Spears too. They were tag champs in OVW so they can probably play up a brothers in arms or a mentor type relationship. I am also a little confused by the Spears thing because I think if he had not been in WWE he would have been in that Bullet Club circle.

I think Spears is the perfect ex-WWE signing for AEW.

You take a guy the fans generally liked and felt was underutilized, actually was underutilized regardless of what the fans thought, and you give him a new lease on life without overpushing him.

If AEW was around when Damien Sandow was released, he would have been signed IMO. 

(Not sure why his TNA run went south so fast. A case of #LOLTNA? I don't know - I didn't watch it. I will say he was DOA the minute he came up with that terrible Aron Rex name and did a typical anti-WWE "shoot" promo. I hope Tony, Cody, and The Bucks insist on some degree of quality control with terrible-sounding indie names.)