Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?

[Migs]

Johhny Gargano. Just sitting out there without a contract and could actually theoretically be used on the main roster now. Might turn out to be brilliant timing by him.

[Strummer]

Dave and Bryan seemed super optimistic about Vince being gone and Hunter head of creative that honestly it was incredibly surreal to hear.

[Migs]

Just now, Strummer said:

Dave and Bryan seemed super optimistic about Vince being gone and Hunter head of creative that honestly it was incredibly surreal to hear.

I think those guys just want a watchable product to review because they have to watch it, and you'd think the changes coming would at least cut down on how intolerable the announcing and camera production are. Even if the booking is stagnant, the production changes should make the show easier to tolerate.

[KawadaSmile]

Man, I'm not sure. When HHH was the boss of NXT, that shit was dire. Even before they started going up against AEW and got demolished both from ratings and booking perspectives, it was not a good product. 

Sure, you got [REDACTED], Undisputed Era, Pete Dunne et al, but they ran that shit to the ground fast. 

[Strummer]

24 minutes ago, Migs said:

I think those guys just want a watchable product to review because they have to watch it, and you'd think the changes coming would at least cut down on how intolerable the announcing and camera production are. Even if the booking is stagnant, the production changes should make the show easier to tolerate.

 

Yeah I felt like it was a sense of relief that there could a possibility of different types of wrestlers getting pushes instead of big guys and less screwy finishes. Obviously don't know yet but man I can't remember Dave or Bryan being that excited for wwe in two decades.

[sek69]

Dave in particular seems hopeful WWE will do a better job at creating stars now that they won't be limited to Vince's extremely narrow vision of what a star is. 

WWE main roster creative has become so glacially stagnant literally anyone else would be doing a better job by default, but HHH really got exposed when he had to do long term booking instead of just 5-6 month callup cycles. 

Also there's the fact that all the positive buzz NXT ever got was from them being the alternative to main roster WWE where guys were actually allowed to have good matches and not be stuck with career ending gimmicks. When AEW came along, we got a real alternative that wasn't part of the extended WWE Universe and NXT started looking more like the corporate sock puppet it always was.

Plus as NXT got more well received, Hunter started getting high on his own farts and booked every NXT main event to have to be a Mania style overdramatic experience with a million "shocked someone kicked out of a move" faces. 

[Jmare007]

I mean, there's 2 different things at play here.

One is the automatic improvement of: no weird ban on words/wrestling terms, hopefully no Kevin Dunn TV making, the possibility of doing long terms stories and actually being able to execute them without throwing out the script before every show.

The other one is having to juggle 5 hours of weekly TV (instead of just 1 hr) and build to monthly PPV AND big Saudi shows. Hunter might have cool ideas and not be out of touch as Vince, but that kind of workload will fry anybody.

 

[sek69]

WWE's biggest problem was having one guy still trying to be in complete control of every aspect like it was still 1985 and he was running the regional territory he bought from his dad. It seems like Nick Khan/Steph  will be running the business end and Hunter will be doing the creative, so that alone is less of a workload. Plus I'm going to go out on a limb and assume he's not going to be an obsessive weirdo who tears up the script before every show. I'm not going to say managing 5 hours of TV (plus a Premium Live Event every month) isn't a massive workload, but a lot of the stresses that existed in WWE were self inflicted.

[Jmare007]

19 minutes ago, sek69 said:

WWE's biggest problem was having one guy still trying to be in complete control of every aspect like it was still 1985 and he was running the regional territory he bought from his dad. It seems like Nick Khan/Steph  will be running the business end and Hunter will be doing the creative, so that alone is less of a workload. Plus I'm going to go out on a limb and assume he's not going to be an obsessive weirdo who tears up the script before every show. I'm not going to say managing 5 hours of TV (plus a Premium Live Event every month) isn't a massive workload, but a lot of the stresses that existed in WWE were self inflicted.

My point is that Hunter hit a wall creatively when he was handling just 1 hour of weekly TV. I completely understand being excited about Vince gone because the worst things about the product will be able to be solved almost instantly. But we have no fucking clue how long a person in charge of all creative can last with so much content to produce. Hell, Tony Khan hit a wall too not even 1 year after having 3 hrs and 2 shows to deal with.

[JerryvonKramer]

8 hours ago, sek69 said:

WWE's biggest problem was having one guy still trying to be in complete control of every aspect like it was still 1985 and he was running the regional territory he bought from his dad. It seems like Nick Khan/Steph  will be running the business end and Hunter will be doing the creative, so that alone is less of a workload. Plus I'm going to go out on a limb and assume he's not going to be an obsessive weirdo who tears up the script before every show. I'm not going to say managing 5 hours of TV (plus a Premium Live Event every month) isn't a massive workload, but a lot of the stresses that existed in WWE were self inflicted.

Have people forgotten what a shitshow committee booking was? 

[sek69]

9 minutes ago, JerryvonKramer said:

Have people forgotten what a shitshow committee booking was? 

No, but can you honestly say a committee would be worse than solely booking based on the whims of a horny 77 year old?

 

[Stiva]

HHH, Michaels, Road Dogg and Jarrett around HHHs motorbike will be the Vince, Patterson, JR and Cornette around Vince’s pool for the new era

[El-P]

One running gag on the Jarrett podcast is that he pretends he was part of the Kliq (before it was called that). Well... Who would have thought Jeff fucking Jarrett would be a WWE higher up official in a non Vince McMahon-run WWE ? He may have been fired live on Nitro, but guess who's still employed by the company and who's not ? It ain't over 'till it's over.

[sek69]

People joke about Hunter playing the long game and Double J is like "hold my beer".

[Embrodak]

I think there is every reason to be optimistic that there will be changes for the better with HHH at the head of creative. At the same time, I can’t imagine that anybody can make 5 hours of TV content a week “good”, overall, nor do I think the army of hack TV writers are going anywhere. And Triple H and HBK were big enthusiasts of the performance center, of having a big “state of the art” building to show “real” athletes, so probably the injunctions against hiring indie guys are going to remain mostly in place. So I think we should probably temper our expectations of how much is going to change.

[Stiva]

They could do a lot worse than integrating the NXT UK roster to the US to really freshen the matches and programs up. 

[El-P]

One of the most hilarious bad take is "WWE is gonna be great again under Triple H, that will hurt AEW a lot because people will come back to WWE". No they won't. First, you gotta be really naive to think that 1/major changes will happen fast 2/Triple H is the savior of pro-wrestling in WWE, that has been exposed a long time ago. Second, why in the hell the AEW audience would stop watch AEW just because WWE is getting better ? Speaking only for myself, although I may have some curiosity about the product if something really different occurs, we're still taking about the same company run by some of the same people who have been there since the early 00's + Nick Khan. Still owned by Vince BTW. There's already too much pro-wrestling available that I would want to watch and don't, I won't come back following WWE just because all of a sudden the product is better. I've got my alternative, I don't need more. But hey, even Vince being outed for sexual harassment has to mean gloom & doom for AEW, because everything does. 

[Al]

Vince didn't fall because of the product. Vince fell because the company and corporate culture was garbage. He is still the primary owner and his proteges are now in charge. For people to say WWE is wonderful because the product is better misses the real problem. 

[El-P]

4 minutes ago, Al said:

For people to say WWE is wonderful because the product is better misses the real problem. 

This.

Meltz basically summed it up the best : Vince beat Vince. No one else. He got to the point of being so rich that no one could beat him, except himself.

[Sweet Brown Koko]

https://www.postwrestling.com/2022/07/26/vince-mcmahon-forfeits-unvested-stock-units-in-connection-with-his-exit-from-wwe/
 

Vince McMahon forfeits unvested stock.

[sek69]

I think the deal with AEW potentially being hurt by this isn't because people think WWE is going to get magically better overnight, but because one of the main selling points to go there was "we won't dead end your career because the old man in charge doesn't get you". If WWE gets to the point where talented folks who aren't 6'5 and jacked can get a fair shot without being repackaged as Scrappy McPoopypants, then that might be something AEW has to deal with. 

[rovert]

Triple H's vision vs Tony Khan's vision is SO interesting. And I am greatly over-simplifying for brevity and effect.

Triple H's vision IMO is too dry for USA/FOX. His idea for a hot angle is a contract signing with a hot brawl. Lots of tag matches and rematches on TV to the build for PPV/TakeOver. With the video hype package doing the true work.

Tony's vision PWG on TV. Sexy matches with wrestlers you may not see on TV for another three weeks or abject squashes with stars facing wrestlers that haven't won on Dynamite in a year. The laissez faire refereeing and run ins makes for immediate exciting TV but doesn't build heat or for revenge of return matches (I'd banish rematch as a term forever) next week via cheating.

[strobogo]

TK's vision is 1997/1998 WCW. HHH's vision is 1989 JCP.

[rovert]

12 minutes ago, strobogo said:

TK's vision is 1997/1998 WCW. HHH's vision is 1989 JCP.

I don't think Triple H has Vince's (before he clearly lost it) Galaxy brain in terms of ramping up and packaging a card on a Vince vs Donald Hair vs Hair level.

Austin Theory, Bron Breakker and Carmello Hayes aren't Hogan, Austin or Rock in training in terms of breakout stars in the making. 

This WWE is largely waiting on the sale or Vince dying first, the product a deep second to me. 

[El-P]

8 hours ago, sek69 said:

If WWE gets to the point where talented folks who aren't 6'5 and jacked can get a fair shot without being repackaged as Scrappy McPoopypants, then that might be something AEW has to deal with. 

I understand that point, but again, not really. That's assuming people in the business only see AEW as a "If I can't get a push in WWE" case, which obviously is ridiculous. That's the whole WWE-centric mentality that has plagued both some workers mind and a vast part of the audience. Plus, let's be realistic, because Trip is in charge, I doubt that it means guys like Darby Allin would magically get recognized for what they are in WWE. Trip was also a bodybuilder at heart, not just a guy with fetish for some 80's wrestling. Sure, he pushed the hell out of Adam Cole in NXT. Adam Cole was also a Shawn Michaels guy. And pushing guys he liked/saw as hot because of their already established indy cred in a non-factor NXT on the then Network is vastly different from dealing with the main brand.

One thing is for sure though, with stuff coming out with Vince needed to be "edited" in production notes and stuff, MANY MANY people are probably so glad of the change that is happening. Probably more than we realize.