Comments that don't warrant a thread 2010-2011

[KrisZ]

Volkoff worked Georgia between Mid-South & WWF. The last GCW booking I have for him is 7/13/84 in Cleveland and first WWF booking I have for him is 7/31/84 in Poughkeepsie.

[flyonthewall2983]

Speaking of Savage, watching the 3/18/89 MSG show on demand and Lanny Poffo's doing one of his poems where he starts heeling on Hulk Hogan and saying Savage was going to win at Wrestlemania V (which was in a couple of weeks). This was before the Genius gimmick, and I guess it was as close as they ever got to acknowledging the relationship between Lanny and Randy.

I think the Genius also read a poem/MC'ed during the Macho King coronation on Superstars.

 

[Victator]

I saw that Eddie Gilbert wrestled Jerry Lawler in Memphis in 1988. I thought he was in the NWA the entire year. I know he was there in

january and December.

[Tim Evans]

He was there March 1988 with his father and Brother. He also booked Alabama in 88 too.

[JerryvonKramer]

On Volkoff - although the WWF wasn't playing ball at the time, didn't the wrestlers still mostly work non-exclusive pay-per-appearance deals?

 

When did Vince start locking down his workers on written contracts? When was Andre's last non-WWF appearance? Did Snuka work for anyone else during his WWF stint? Just wondering really. The answer may lie therein, but maybe not.

 

On Pettingill - it looks like his contract expired and they decided not to renew it. Mooney also seemed to be on a long-term sort of deal before him and in that instance, his contract expired and he decided he didn't want to renew it. I'd assume that Rob Bartlett, Charlie Minh were on try out deals whereas there was an actual job in the company attached to "the Mooney/ Pettingill/ Cole" role. Like the difference between a permanent position and temporary role.

 

If you look, there was probably a similar "permenant post" there for Lord Alfred. When he retired in 1995, clearly the replacement was Michael Hayes (as "Dok Hendrix"). This is just a guess, but it seems like when Hayes moved to creative, that job was then taken by Jonathan Coachman.

 

Seem to me there were a set number of "permanent positions" on the WWF broadcast team:

 

On air President / commissioner (Jack Tunney >> Gorilla Monsoon >> Sgt. Slaughter)

 

Lead play-by-play (Gorilla Monsoon >> [Vince >>] Jim Ross*)

 

Lead Colour (Jesse Ventura* >> Bobby Heenan >> Jerry Lawler)

 

Lead interviewer / host (Gene Okerlund >> Joe Fowler (?) >> Kevin Kelly? [role phased out ??])

 

B-show play-by-play (Vince McMahon* >> Tony Schiavone** >> Vince McMahon >> Gorilla Monsoon)

 

B-show colour (Bobby Heenan >> Roddy Piper >> Randy Savage >> Jim Cornette ??)

 

'The Mooney role' [2nd interviewer, Home video host, 'news updates', C-show play-by-play (Craig DeGeorge >> Sean Mooney >> Todd Pettingill >> Michael Cole)

 

C-show colour / heel interviewer / home video co-host: Lord Alred Hayes >> Michael Hayes >> The Coach

 

* This is slightly complicated by the fact that on programming, the commentary teams were usually paired: McMahon / Ventura and Monsoon / Heenan. The former on Superstars and SNME and the latter on Prime Time. However, on PPVs it was almost always Monsoon and Ventura, that's why they are "lead".

 

Also, seems like for whatever reason around late 1993 Vince lost faith in Jim Ross, and reinstated himself as lead play-by-play for PPVs and Raw. Again, not sure why this is, but it is worth noting.

 

** I've always been slightly puzzled by why Vince signed Schiavone. Is there a reason why he did Summerslam 89 and Royal Rumble 90? Was he planning to phase onsoon out then? Because Vince also does a lot of the PPV play-by-play himself in this era. Was Gorilla ill in 1990? Never really worked that out.

[flyonthewall2983]

Heenan first started on PrimeTime because Jesse was shooting Predator, and the rest is history.

 

I think for SummerSlam '89, Gorilla couldn't make it because of health problems. I know at an MSG show sometime before that, Vince filled in because Monsoon was recovering from a stroke.

[Loss]

The Vince/JR problems in late '93/early '94 were related to Ross getting blamed for leaking something to the sheets. I don't remember the exact details. But he got fired and then brought back later over it. During the period he was fired, he briefly landed in SMW.

 

When Vince was indicted in the steroid trial, he didn't have the time to commit to announcing, so Jim Ross would do so.

 

For what it's worth, it's often been rumored and I think Dave has confirmed that Ross really wanted to return to WCW for a long time, and made frequent calls to Bischoff looking for work that weren't returned.

[JerryvonKramer]

So Ross was actually not with the company in 1994?

 

Honestly never knew that. I thought he was doing WWF radio or B-shows or something.

[Loss]

He was with the company for parts of the year. But the "he fired me twice" stuff is a shoot.

 

Again, I've never quite been clear on the timeline or reason.

 

The problems between Ross and Vince at that point had nothing to do with his performance as an announcer. Vince may have not liked certain things about the way he called matches, but that was never the issue that led to the problems they had.

 

Whatever it was, it blew over, because Ross was lead booker for a brief spell in the early part of '95 and was doing the Talent Relations thing by early '96 at the latest.

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

He was fired in January '94 after getting Bell's Palsy. He came back in July while Vince was on trial for a short bit, then was fired for doing an interview with the Torch. He was brought back in January '95.

[Loss]

Obviously, whatever public reason they gave for Ross's firing had nothing to do with his Bells Palsy. How did they spin the first firing?

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

Well, here's what the Torch said at the time:

 

ITEM #2: JIM ROSS CONTRACT TO EXPIRE

 

Jim Ross's contract will not be renewed. He joined the WWF last March and took over announcing duties on WWF Challenge and was given the WWF's biggest show to broadcast, Wrestlemania, upon his entrance. Since then, he has fallen out of favor with management.

 

The latest reason for his poor standing with WWF upper management is his refusal to go along with an idea to play a "J.R. Ewing"-type of heel commentator with Gorilla Monsoon. Ross, who perhaps takes his credibility more seriously than any other wrestling announcer in this country, refused to "turn heel" and become a fictional character.

 

He has reportedly already met with WCW about returning and it doesn't appear likely an agreement will be reached soon, although down the line, his return is probable. He has been off camera for over a month due to a condition that has temporarily paralyzed half of his face. He should fully recover, if he hasn't already.

 

Vince McMahon has taken over Ross's duties hosting "Radio WWF" and Gorilla Monsoon has returned as host of Challenge.

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

I suppose I shouldn't have made it sound like they fired him FOR getting Bell's Palsy.

[Cox]

I do think that around late '93, for whatever reason, Vince did lose faith in him. He was the lead play by play man for Wrestlemania IX and King of the Ring '93, but Vince handles the commentary for SummerSlam '93 onward, with Ross demoted to doing Radio WWF with Monsoon for the Survivor Series and Royal Rumble. Clearly, something happened in the summer of '93 to cause Vince to lose faith in Ross, be it a poor performance at KOTR or something else.

[kjh]

The timeline according to the Torch back issues goes something like this:

 

January 1994 - Jim Ross gets Bells Palsy.

February 1994 - Jim Ross' contract fails to get renewed after falling out of favour with management, the main reason having to do with refusing to turn heel and play a "JR Ewing" type character on colour commentary. Ross met with Eric Bischoff about returning to the company, but they couldn't come to an agreement.

Early June 1994 - Ross does a lengthy Torch Talk with Wade Keller that is published in instalments over the next two months.

Late June / Early July 1994 - Ross signs a two month contract with the WWF to fill Vince McMahon's announcing role until after his trial is over. The company was unhappy with Gorilla Monsoon's performance as Vince's initial fill in.

July 31st 1994 - Vince returns as the lead announcer on Monday Night Raw.

End of August 1994 - Ross' contract is not renewed again after negotiations broke down. Apparently Ross had heat for some of his frank remarks in the aforementioned Torch Talk interview.

End of 1994 - Ross leaves SMW to take a front office position with the WWF.

[Strummer]

For what it's worth, it's often been rumored and I think Dave has confirmed that Ross really wanted to return to WCW for a long time, and made frequent calls to Bischoff looking for work that weren't returned.

didn't Bischoff mention this in one his smarmy Nitro rants circa 95/96?

 

and JR on the booking team is like a lost period in WWF history. I think Bill Watts lasted longer later in the year

[Loss]

Bischoff did mention in a Prodigy chat once that he wished Jim Ross would stop calling him and looking for work, yes. I don't think Ross was calling him anymore by this time though.

 

That Torch Talk was incredibly diplomatic. I'm curious what got him heat. I haven't read it in years, but I remember my impression reading it that it was very political. He was even putting over Bischoff for the Hogan signing and saying that it was too early for WCW to be getting the criticism they were getting over it. He was obviously trying to keep all options on the table.

[Victator]

He was there March 1988 with his father and Brother. He also booked Alabama in 88 too.

Why did he leave Crockett?

[Strummer]

more TNA fun

 

The "Network Representative" was going to be Mick Foley. In typical TNA fashion they came up with the angle before asking Foley just assuming that he would agree to it. Well he turned it down. Either because he wants out or he just didn't like the direction of the angle. Well anyway now they don't know who it's going to be and are in panic mode trying to find a replacement. The idea was to "one up" WWE on the anonymous GM angle. from Keller

[jdw]

Bischoff did mention in a Prodigy chat once that he wished Jim Ross would stop calling him and looking for work, yes. I don't think Ross was calling him anymore by this time though.

 

That Torch Talk was incredibly diplomatic. I'm curious what got him heat. I haven't read it in years, but I remember my impression reading it that it was very political. He was even putting over Bischoff for the Hogan signing and saying that it was too early for WCW to be getting the criticism they were getting over it. He was obviously trying to keep all options on the table.

My recollection is that Tony played a big role in keeping Ross from coming back. Tony hated Ross going back to the days of essentially taking Tony's job, Tony heading to the WWF for that stretch, and never wanted to see Ross come back to the company.

 

I'm not sure if there was any bad blood between Ross and Eric at the time when Ross had his falling out with Vince. But there was a reason Ross went to SMW: the natural place for him to go was blocked. He either was heading back to Vince eventually, or he was fucked.

 

The irony is that in the long run it worked out. When returning to the WWF he eventually got the executive gig, took over Raw when Vince realized it was time to get out of the booth, and pretty much was an institution at the peak of the company. On never knows if he was smart with his money, but it turned out well. Even with all the times the WWE tried to ease him out after, he retained both an on-air and a paying gig for a lot longer than his peers in the mid-90s.

 

Of course Tenay has gotten lucky that TNA had a money mark and he's ended up with a gig longer than I suspect he even expected.

 

John

[Johnny Sorrow]

I never got the whole "Andre was passing the torch to Hogan at Mania 3" deal. Hogan was already super over and a celebrity, and Andre had been kinda washed up for awhile. I get the whole "Match Of The Century" thing, as it was part of the story. But all the "shoot" stuff since then about torch passing just never made sense to me.

[Jingus]

Was Andre ever really considered to be the biggest star in wrestling? ("Biggest" in terms of fame, not biology.) I'm not sure he had a torch to pass in the first place, even with his household-name mainstream notoriety. Certainly he was never pushed as the #1 top star of any promotion he ever worked in. Seemed like he was always a part-time gimmick, brought in every once in a while to pop a few big houses and then move on to his next gig.

[flyonthewall2983]

I think the "torch passing" stuff has to do with Andre doing a straight job for someone, which hadn't (to my knowledge) happened before for obvious reasons. I also think it was a backstage move as much as anything else, because Andre had the respect of the boys that maybe Hogan didn't have. Silly or not as it sounds, that's my take on it.

[Victator]

Better masked team the Gladiators or the Cruel Connection?

[smkelly]

Psicosis and La Parka