BrickHithouse Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I think Triple H is a good wrestler, he's just very low on the list of wrestlers I want to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nell Santucci Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I think Triple H is a good wrestler, he's just very low on the list of wrestlers I want to see. Sure. Triple Yawn bores me to no end, but many on that roster bore me (including Shawn Michaels) partly because they've been headlining on and off for over 15 years, partly because their false finish-oriented matches are nauseating, and partly because the WWE forces all their guys to work a "marketing-oriented" style that, though it's truly admirable from a marketing standpoint, makes for a formulaic product that only has its moments of excitement when watching them on PPV. But I suppose my grievance lies more along the lines of someone who believes there does exist a reasonably objective metric for ranking wrestlers, i.e. it's a purely subjective to rank Flair, Funk, Lawler, and some others, but it's objective to say that each is an all time great worker. That so many seem to agree independently speaks for itself and over different generations speaks for itself. That this generation seems to crap on Bruiser Brody shows that he's not nearly as good as the 80's generation claimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I'd put Ivan Putski and Brutus Beefcake below him and Fred Ottman and Honky Tonk Man ahead of HHH, in the 750-800 range. I hope you're joking. Â Â I don't think I would have any of those guys definitively over HHH, but I don't think HTM is an outrageous pick to go over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Triple H seems like a guy people will look back on in 20 years and wonder why everyone was so down on his work. I wouldn't suggest he's GOAT or anything, but it seems like a lot of people can't separate the in ring guy with the asshole backstage who buried people for shits and giggles. From what I can tell, the things he's got his fingerprints on now since he's taken up some of the reigns look to be positive changes for the company and that will likely go a long way toward changing people's overall opinion of him. Â What strikes me as particularly funny is that his schtick of trying to be a modern era touring NWA champion would most likely endear himself to long time fans if he didn't have the other baggage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I don't care that HHH is an asshole backstage. I just don't think he's very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Triple H seems like a guy people will look back on in 20 years and wonder why everyone was so down on his work. I agree with this. By that point people will be cherry picking the matches and angles to watch: they won't have any experience of tuning in to his boring twenty minute promos every week, or a lot of the dud matches he had. Overexposure is a major explanation for the hate he gets - he has literally been on television every week for nearly twenty years and has barely changed his act in that time. Â I feel like he hasn't pushed himself at all. I know we're down on moves these days, but his repertoire really consists of three or four spots he goes through every match, and he doesn't have any believable finish except for the pedigree which makes it all a bit mundane. Â You could definitely put together a ten disc comp of his good matches and angles which would convince someone who hadn't seen him before that HHH was a good worker though, and nearly all fans except for the uber-smarks on boards like this consider him a great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Which twenty hours of wrestling matches and promos would one put on an HHH comp if they were trying to build a rep for him as an all time great? Â Actually enough of the HHH talk in here. That's what The Microscope is for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Could probably fill 20 hours of his opening promos from RAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nell Santucci Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I hate HHH as much as anyone, as his act bores me to tears, but I don't think he's a bad worker by any stretch of the imagination. I feel that he's just one of the most overpushed acts next to Jeff Jarrett in the business' history. But how HHH is booked says nothing about him as a worker imo. That some idiot backstage decides that it's a good idea to put HHH in the HIAC for 50 minutes speaks more for their incompetence than HHH's. That doesn't mean he's a crap worker. I wouldn't want to watch any HHH match for any reason, but he's still a good worker, objectively speaking. Â Dylan, what set of matches does Honky have that compares to HHH's? Honky would struggle to have a ** match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Honky would struggle to have a ** match. No he wouldn't. Honky wouldn't struggle at all. He was real good at not struggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Would you say Honky was a more effective heel than HHH though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I'm not doing the legwork. Do people consider Honky to have been a draw as the vulnerable champ for a year and a half, headlining the B Shows? How does that compare to HHH as a draw in the 00s as The Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I hate HHH as much as anyone, as his act bores me to tears, but I don't think he's a bad worker by any stretch of the imagination. I feel that he's just one of the most overpushed acts next to Jeff Jarrett in the business' history. But how HHH is booked says nothing about him as a worker imo. That some idiot backstage decides that it's a good idea to put HHH in the HIAC for 50 minutes speaks more for their incompetence than HHH's. That doesn't mean he's a crap worker. I wouldn't want to watch any HHH match for any reason, but he's still a good worker, objectively speaking. Â Dylan, what set of matches does Honky have that compares to HHH's? Honky would struggle to have a ** match. Objectively speaking HHH is a good worker? By what objective metrics? Â I'm not in the business of lobbying for HTM one way or the other, but I don't think it would be impossible to name several hundred guys I would rate over HHH. 1000 doesn't seem impossible either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I hate HHH as much as anyone, as his act bores me to tears, but I don't think he's a bad worker by any stretch of the imagination. I feel that he's just one of the most overpushed acts next to Jeff Jarrett in the business' history. But how HHH is booked says nothing about him as a worker imo. That some idiot backstage decides that it's a good idea to put HHH in the HIAC for 50 minutes speaks more for their incompetence than HHH's. That doesn't mean he's a crap worker. I wouldn't want to watch any HHH match for any reason, but he's still a good worker, objectively speaking. Â Dylan, what set of matches does Honky have that compares to HHH's? Honky would struggle to have a ** match. Objectively speaking HHH is a good worker? By what objective metrics? Â I'm not in the business of lobbying for HTM one way or the other, but I don't think it would be impossible to name several hundred guys I would rate over HHH. 1000 doesn't seem impossible either. Â If he says it one more time, it'll be three and he'll have to do it or be cursed for seven years. Someone goad him into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I wouldn't really lobby for Honky Tonk Man as a great worker, but if you're looking at an overall performer who has every single aspect of his act down, I'd have to give the nod to HTM over HHH. HHH's character has always sort of floated from thing to thing. He could never decide if he was Blueblood snob guy, immature degenerate guy, suit-wearing Flair wannabe guy or cutoff denim and leather guy. Â I could buy it as a progression over time if he didn't alternate between some of those identities so much long after he made his name. Instead, it was more about HHH shifting his persona to try to cash in on whatever was going on at that moment in time, be it booking Flair as his underling or doing the DX nostalgia run. There's nothing particularly wrong with that, but one could interpret it to mean that he didn't have a durable enough persona to be plugged into any program without having to change his gimmick. Â I never really saw those changes as reinventions like Hollywood Hogan or Stone Cold Steve Austin. Those guys weren't always those characters, but once they found something bankable, they stuck with it. For whatever reason, HHH kept changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Rock will not be on Raw tonight. Punk was right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I wouldn't really lobby for Honky Tonk Man as a great worker, but if you're looking at an overall performer who has every single aspect of his act down, I'd have to give the nod to HTM over HHH. HHH's character has always sort of floated from thing to thing. He could never decide if he was Blueblood snob guy, immature degenerate guy, suit-wearing Flair wannabe guy or cutoff denim and leather guy. Â I could buy it as a progression over time if he didn't alternate between some of those identities so much long after he made his name. Instead, it was more about HHH shifting his persona to try to cash in on whatever was going on at that moment in time, be it booking Flair as his underling or doing the DX nostalgia run. There's nothing particularly wrong with that, but one could interpret it to mean that he didn't have a durable enough persona to be plugged into any program without having to change his gimmick. Â I never really saw those changes as reinventions like Hollywood Hogan or Stone Cold Steve Austin. Those guys weren't always those characters, but once they found something bankable, they stuck with it. For whatever reason, HHH kept changing. Ole Anderson once claimed that Ric Flair never got over unless he was with someone else, or with a group of people. I don't necessarily agree with that argument of Flair (especially considering the builds for Starrcade '83 and '93), but I think it's a valid criticism of HHH, and also something that may factor into, as you stated, his constant changing of characters, since a group of guys can only stay over and fresh for so long, particularly in the Crash TV era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 It's interesting that from his first day in the company they always paired him with someone else or a group. The models, Curtis Hughes, Chyna, Shawn, Outlaws, Waltman, Stephanie, Flair, Orton, Batista. He's never had a solo act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 My favorite part of this was that when Chyna turned face in 2000, they still had her accompanying heel HHH to the ring. Â I'm not sure if this is because the fed didn't have faith in HHH as solo heel act, but that's what it felt like. Â At the time, the normal set up for the pedigree was a Chyna low blow. It may be that they trusted in HHH's solo charisma and just didn't think he could set up his finisher without her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Breaking news from Dave: Â Bruno Sammartino will be inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame in Madison Square Garden. The announcement will be made on Raw. WWE released the story to ESPN. Â This was the story we hinted about last night on Live Audio Wrestling. It was kept secret from virtually everyone in WWE and Sammartino had an agreement not to release it ahead of WWE. We'll have a lot more on this later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Would you say Honky was a more effective heel than HHH though?Honky was pretty good as a heel. He seemed to be one of the slimiest guys in the WWF and you knew anyone could beat him, but he'd find a way to slip out of it. Plus the whole guitar shot on Macho Man was really well done and was a highlight moment for him. That at the worst was anything better than HHH did as a heel. Honky's Memphis run was also really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Here's the ESPN article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Breaking news from Dave: Â Bruno Sammartino will be inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame in Madison Square Garden. The announcement will be made on Raw. WWE released the story to ESPN. Â This was the story we hinted about last night on Live Audio Wrestling. It was kept secret from virtually everyone in WWE and Sammartino had an agreement not to release it ahead of WWE. We'll have a lot more on this later today. Holy motherfucking shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I wonder if that means Hunter inducts him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I suppose that means we now have one fewer member of the Vince Haters Society. Ole Anderson weeps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts