Roman Reigns as the ace post-Wrestlemania

[Zoo Enthusiast]

I find the YouTube number stuff quite fascinating in terms of how we can read into it for who fans are most interested in and what demographic it reaches. The Lesnar vs Reigns feud dwarfed everything else in the Mania build-up but the match itself was shit on.

Does that tell us that casuals watch YouTube and they want to see those two but the hardcores who are in the building don't? Or is that too simplistic?

I think that it’s closer to right than it is to wrong. Wasn’t the Rey vid the biggest one after the Rumble?

[FMKK]

 

I find the YouTube number stuff quite fascinating in terms of how we can read into it for who fans are most interested in and what demographic it reaches. The Lesnar vs Reigns feud dwarfed everything else in the Mania build-up but the match itself was shit on.

Does that tell us that casuals watch YouTube and they want to see those two but the hardcores who are in the building don't? Or is that too simplistic?

I think that it’s closer to right than it is to wrong. Wasn’t the Rey vid the biggest one after the Rumble?

By a mile. IIRC old clips of his matches tend to do really well compared to other guys.

[Boss Rock]

I think Youtube numbers are also pretty heavily bolstered by international viewers.

[Strummer]

Meltz says Brock came to an agreement for a new contract at the go home Raw for Mania and signed it at mania Roman was going into mania thinking he was going over until he was told the new finish. Original finish had him getting out an of an F5 and spear for the win. Maybe 5-10 people knew of the new finish

 

Dave doesn't know if it's a long term deal or a one off for Brock

 

plan is definitely for Roman to eventually get the title and he is still seen as the guy despite what went down

 

so looks like Vince changed his mind right before Mania

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Meltz says Brock came to an agreement for a new contract at the go home Raw for Mania and signed it at mania Roman was going into mania thinking he was going over until he was told the new finish. Original finish had him getting out an of an F5 and spear for the win. Maybe 5-10 people knew of the new finish

 

Dave doesn't know if it's a long term deal or a one off for Brock

 

plan is definitely for Roman to eventually get the title and he is still seen as the guy despite what went down

 

so looks like Vince changed his mind right before Mania

That sucks.

[Mad Dog]

Meltz says Brock came to an agreement for a new contract at the go home Raw for Mania and signed it at mania Roman was going into mania thinking he was going over until he was told the new finish. Original finish had him getting out an of an F5 and spear for the win. Maybe 5-10 people knew of the new finish

 

Dave doesn't know if it's a long term deal or a one off for Brock

 

plan is definitely for Roman to eventually get the title and he is still seen as the guy despite what went down

 

so looks like Vince changed his mind right before Mania

 

I'm not a Roman fan by any means but this is just stupid. How can you still have him as the guy after you just let him get shit on by the fans at Wrestlemania and then jobbed him to boot?

[KawadaSmile]

I think this thread might've jinxed the absolute shit out of Roman.

 

He's DEAD.

 

Killed.

 

Got a creative bullet through his head.

 

Braun's the man and Roman is the court jester.

 

Evil won. Smarks rejoice. Fucking idiots.

[FMKK]

I think this thread might've jinxed the absolute shit out of Roman.

 

He's DEAD.

 

Killed.

 

Got a creative bullet through his head.

 

Braun's the man and Roman is the court jester.

 

Evil won. Smarks rejoice. Fucking idiots.

The Political Hit was me all along, it was me all along Austin!

[Grimmas]

I think this thread might've jinxed the absolute shit out of Roman.

 

He's DEAD.

 

Killed.

 

Got a creative bullet through his head.

 

Braun's the man and Roman is the court jester.

 

Evil won. Smarks rejoice. Fucking idiots.

He has to stay off TV for like six months at the very least. But he's done as a top guy.

[Cap]

To be clear....

 

I thought Reigns would win and I wanted Reigns to win at Mania

 

I thought Reigns would win and I wanted Reigns to win at GRR

 

I like Reigns and I wish they would have pulled the trigger by now.

 

That said, I just don't think this is some kind of end. WWE is such a short cycle promotion. By November or January we could be talking about how great the last 7-9 moths of build for Reigns were and how they really turned around the main event.

 

Sure, this seems like nonsense booking to us, but I don't feel like the broader audience sees this the same way. If WWE/mainstream wrestling in general functionally operated on long term cycles... yeah, he would be dead. But it doesn't. no one is watching WWE for their long term booking right now. This is esp true on a glorified money mark house show that was more or less a big commercial for SA - for fuck sake HHH v Cena... Rusev v Taker. Honesty, a rich man's child booked a lot of this indirectly by telling his dad what he liked.... right?

 

They fucked up the story and they fucked up the Reigns push... royally, but he isn't' dead and I would be shocked if he is going away. He will likely plug along and put on great matches for the foreseeable future. I don't know how they handle him or how they get him over, but guess is that if they just let him keep being great for a while away from the title people will actually latch on fast.

[shodate]

To be clear....

 

I thought Reigns would win and I wanted Reigns to win at Mania

 

I thought Reigns would win and I wanted Reigns to win at GRR

 

I like Reigns and I wish they would have pulled the trigger by now.

 

That said, I just don't think this is some kind of end. WWE is such a short cycle promotion. By November or January we could be talking about how great the last 7-9 moths of build for Reigns were and how they really turned around the main event.

 

Sure, this seems like nonsense booking to us, but I don't feel like the broader audience sees this the same way. If WWE/mainstream wrestling in general functionally operated on long term cycles... yeah, he would be dead. But it doesn't. no one is watching WWE for their long term booking right now. This is esp true on a glorified money mark house show that was more or less a big commercial for SA - for fuck sake HHH v Cena... Rusev v Taker. Honesty, a rich man's child booked a lot of this indirectly by telling his dad what he liked.... right?

 

They fucked up the story and they fucked up the Reigns push... royally, but he isn't' dead and I would be shocked if he is going away. He will likely plug along and put on great matches for the foreseeable future. I don't know how they handle him or how they get him over, but guess is that if they just let him keep being great for a while away from the title people will actually latch on fast.

he will never be dead imo since wwe dies not book long term any more so you cannot watch it long term

[Johnny Sorrow]

It's darling that people think that this is the end of the Roman story.

[Jimmy Redman]

Now look, I admit I'm getting a certain amount of schadenfreude out of Roman jobbing to Brock lately. It's just so ridiculous after what we've had to sit through the last few years. If I'm being completely serious, I'm fairly neutral on Roman. I think he's a very good wrestler and has a shit tonne of great matches on a regular basis, but I also have no personal interest in him and have found the last four years of booking around him to be tedious.

 

The "evil has won!" "well done smarks you suck!" "If you still boo Roman you're an..." kind of histrionics I've seen on Twitter and such from the pro-Roman brigade lately has been hilarious. Like, my dudes...Roman is not The Guy. Maybe he could have been The Guy at one point, at certain points, but they have whiffed at every turn and the people have not bought it and he's not The Guy. And after now FOUR YEARS of attempt after attempt to make him into The Guy (or not, depending on your #PoliticalHit leanings) they have still not succeeded in making him The Guy. No matter who's fault this is (and I think the short answer to that is that it's a little of everyone's fault: Vince, writing, Roman, fans) that's the reality.

 

That doesn't mean he sucks, doesn't mean he's not a super great wrestler and has a bunch of great matches every week. Sure. And that doesn't mean he's not over and they don't have something interesting with all the booing and hatred he gets. Sure. But that doesn't make him The Guy. All the great matches in the world don't make you The Guy. We know this about the wrestling business, we've seen it over and over and I think we're all a bit smarter than "Why do you keep booing Roman when he has such great matches?" Which seems to be the primary sentiment I see from his Twitter chorus.

 

The people do not buy Roman as The Guy. The company has persisted and tried to force it (and I get from their point of view "well it worked with Cena") and they still haven't bought it. At some point they're going to have to accept that they're just not going to buy it, and try something else.

 

Who knows, maybe if they do, people can have some breathing room and forget about the Roman push for a while, and find it in them to look at him with new eyes. But it's impossible when they're constantly being choked by Roman when they've said over and over they don't want him. Let them miss him a little. Not that he has to go away or become the Impact World Champion per se, but just stop putting him in these positions.

[shodate]

Now look, I admit I'm getting a certain amount of schadenfreude out of Roman jobbing to Brock lately. It's just so ridiculous after what we've had to sit through the last few years. If I'm being completely serious, I'm fairly neutral on Roman. I think he's a very good wrestler and has a shit tonne of great matches on a regular basis, but I also have no personal interest in him and have found the last four years of booking around him to be tedious.

 

The "evil has won!" "well done smarks you suck!" "If you still boo Roman you're an..." kind of histrionics I've seen on Twitter and such from the pro-Roman brigade lately has been hilarious. Like, my dudes...Roman is not The Guy. Maybe he could have been The Guy at one point, at certain points, but they have whiffed at every turn and the people have not bought it and he's not The Guy. And after now FOUR YEARS of attempt after attempt to make him into The Guy (or not, depending on your #PoliticalHit leanings) they have still not succeeded in making him The Guy. No matter who's fault this is (and I think the short answer to that is that it's a little of everyone's fault: Vince, writing, Roman, fans) that's the reality.

 

That doesn't mean he sucks, doesn't mean he's not a super great wrestler and has a bunch of great matches every week. Sure. And that doesn't mean he's not over and they don't have something interesting with all the booing and hatred he gets. Sure. But that doesn't make him The Guy. All the great matches in the world don't make you The Guy. We know this about the wrestling business, we've seen it over and over and I think we're all a bit smarter than "Why do you keep booing Roman when he has such great matches?" Which seems to be the primary sentiment I see from his Twitter chorus.

 

The people do not buy Roman as The Guy. The company has persisted and tried to force it (and I get from their point of view "well it worked with Cena") and they still haven't bought it. At some point they're going to have to accept that they're just not going to buy it, and try something else.

 

Who knows, maybe if they do, people can have some breathing room and forget about the Roman push for a while, and find it in them to look at him with new eyes. But it's impossible when they're constantly being choked by Roman when they've said over and over they don't want him. Let them miss him a little. Not that he has to go away or become the Impact World Champion per se, but just stop putting him in these positions.

good matches is the eye of the beholder in my book hes never had above a three-star match you see but that comes from somebody wh has given out vry few top marks in the past decade this may be derived from how I rate I but there you go

 

yes my very rigid i how i rate that will never change but wrestling as whole hes became very samey i my eyes in the US and apan that is 99% king road style yes even WWE without knowing it

 

and very few people who are under 50 know how really work Kings Road style and most indie guys admit thye gre uo loving all japan 90's vis the tape trading and what not os they try and emulate that

 

i wish strong style was still a thing that would sopt every being so samey

 

and since roman does not know how to really work the KR style he not over because of this fans you wish ot see that style out of the top guys say they reject Roman cause they see is a weakness in the style they wish ot see out what they view or that is how i see it from someone who is very Nutreal on roman too same as you

[El-P]

The "evil has won!" "well done smarks you suck!" "If you still boo Roman you're an..." kind of histrionics I've seen on Twitter and such from the pro-Roman brigade lately has been hilarious. Like, my dudes...Roman is not The Guy. Maybe he could have been The Guy at one point, at certain points, but they have whiffed at every turn and the people have not bought it and he's not The Guy. And after now FOUR YEARS of attempt after attempt to make him into The Guy (or not, depending on your #PoliticalHit leanings) they have still not succeeded in making him The Guy. No matter who's fault this is (and I think the short answer to that is that it's a little of everyone's fault: Vince, writing, Roman, fans) that's the reality.

 

Let's pin this. The Roman Reigns experiment has been the longest booking debacle of modern pro-wrestling. It could only happen because of the state of the business too, with another strong company in the US, there's no way this kind of industrial accident would occur, he would have either jumped or be turned heel a long, long time ago.

[Victator]

Brock is the guy.

They still have the heel turn in their back pocket. If they turn Reigns heel and nobody cares, then you have a problem. Doing a double turn with Braun would have been ideal. But that ship has sailed.

[shodate]

 

The "evil has won!" "well done smarks you suck!" "If you still boo Roman you're an..." kind of histrionics I've seen on Twitter and such from the pro-Roman brigade lately has been hilarious. Like, my dudes...Roman is not The Guy. Maybe he could have been The Guy at one point, at certain points, but they have whiffed at every turn and the people have not bought it and he's not The Guy. And after now FOUR YEARS of attempt after attempt to make him into The Guy (or not, depending on your #PoliticalHit leanings) they have still not succeeded in making him The Guy. No matter who's fault this is (and I think the short answer to that is that it's a little of everyone's fault: Vince, writing, Roman, fans) that's the reality.

 

Let's pin this. The Roman Reigns experiment has been the longest booking debacle of modern pro-wrestling. It could only happen because of the state of the business too, with another strong company in the US, there's no way this kind of industrial accident would occur, he would have either jumped or be turned heel a long, long time ago.

 

could nor agree more

[Victator]

 

The "evil has won!" "well done smarks you suck!" "If you still boo Roman you're an..." kind of histrionics I've seen on Twitter and such from the pro-Roman brigade lately has been hilarious. Like, my dudes...Roman is not The Guy. Maybe he could have been The Guy at one point, at certain points, but they have whiffed at every turn and the people have not bought it and he's not The Guy. And after now FOUR YEARS of attempt after attempt to make him into The Guy (or not, depending on your #PoliticalHit leanings) they have still not succeeded in making him The Guy. No matter who's fault this is (and I think the short answer to that is that it's a little of everyone's fault: Vince, writing, Roman, fans) that's the reality.

 

Let's pin this. The Roman Reigns experiment has been the longest booking debacle of modern pro-wrestling. It could only happen because of the state of the business too, with another strong company in the US, there's no way this kind of industrial accident would occur, he would have either jumped or be turned heel a long, long time ago.

 

There was a segment with Eddy Guerrero singing in a bar in 02, Mick Foley noted would have been edited if Nitro were on another channel.

[C.S.]

It's darling that people think that this is the end of the Roman story.

 

Exactly. Roman is one victory away from being the ace again. Defeating Brock and going on a tear for the rest of the year will be enough to undo all the "damage" that's already been done (and I use the word "damage" loosely and have it in quotes for a reason).

 

Whether that actually happens is another story. They seem to be positioning Braun as the new "guy" now. We'll see if that sticks. People already forget that of all of Brock's major opponents, Braun had the worst matches with him.

 

With that said, I still support the idea of WWE shifting its "ace" resources to Braun - I'm just doubtful it will actually happen.

 

As I said in another thread, everyone seems to think Brock vs. Lashley is inevitable for SummerSlam and/or Lashley is the one who will take the title off Brock. Maybe it'll happen, but nothing so far seems to indicate that. Lashley barely made a dent in the GRR and was instantly "just another guy" the minute he made his underwhelming return.

 

Doing a double turn with Braun would have been ideal. But that ship has sailed.

 

They kinda did that last year, except they didn't bother to fully turn either guy.

[shodate]

 

It's darling that people think that this is the end of the Roman story.

 

Exactly. Roman is one victory away from being the ace again. Defeating Brock and going on a tear for the rest of the year will be enough to undo all the "damage" that's already been done (and I use the word "damage" loosely and have it in quotes for a reason).

 

Whether that actually happens is another story. They seem to be positioning Braun as the new "guy" now. We'll see if that sticks. People already forget that of all of Brock's major opponents, Braun had the worst matches with him.

 

With that said, I still support the idea of WWE shifting its "ace" resources to Braun - I'm just doubtful it will actually happen.

 

As I said in another thread, everyone seems to think Brock vs. Lashley is inevitable for SummerSlam and/or Lashley is the one who will take the title off Brock. Maybe it'll happen, but nothing so far seems to indicate that. Lashley barely made a dent in the GRR and was instantly "just another guy" the minute he made his underwhelming return.

 

there is being booked a sthe ace vs being seen as the ace by the fans part one can change part two is harder

[C.S.]

there is being booked a sthe ace vs being seen as the ace by the fans part one can change part two is harder

The fans rejected Roman years ago though, so I don't see that suddenly influencing any of WWE's decisions now.

[Victator]

 

It's darling that people think that this is the end of the Roman story.

 

Exactly. Roman is one victory away from being the ace again. Defeating Brock and going on a tear for the rest of the year will be enough to undo all the "damage" that's already been done (and I use the word "damage" loosely and have it in quotes for a reason).

 

Whether that actually happens is another story. They seem to be positioning Braun as the new "guy" now. We'll see if that sticks. People already forget that of all of Brock's major opponents, Braun had the worst matches with him.

 

With that said, I still support the idea of WWE shifting its "ace" resources to Braun - I'm just doubtful it will actually happen.

 

As I said in another thread, everyone seems to think Brock vs. Lashley is inevitable for SummerSlam and/or Lashley is the one who will take the title off Brock. Maybe it'll happen, but nothing so far seems to indicate that. Lashley barely made a dent in the GRR and was instantly "just another guy" the minute he made his underwhelming return.

 

Doing a double turn with Braun would have been ideal. But that ship has sailed.

 

They kinda did that last year, except they didn't bother to fully turn either guy.

 

That ended up being a big problem. They botched the Braun turn somewhat. But Braun has proven to be somewhat bullet proof to booking. I have supported Braun since he debuted. He has been the top face for over a year, whether WWE wanted it or not.

 

I think we can safely say, people like Roman in a group. His most over periods since Shield 1.0 was the brief time he was with Ambrose and the Usos and during the snake bit Shield reunion.

 

Roman's greatest obstacle is going to be apathy. Without Braun and Joe, people don't care if he is against someone else.

[shodate]

 

there is being booked a sthe ace vs being seen as the ace by the fans part one can change part two is harder

The fans rejected Roman years ago though, so I don't see that suddenly influencing any of WWE's decisions now.

 

i kinda see roman alike a pre LOS Naito Roman needs a LOS Style makeover imo

[Zoo Enthusiast]

I know Braun is THE GUY and I am completely on board with that and I like him even more than Roman.

 

However, my question is: can’t Roman at least be The Guy for a few months? Like, please? This whole debacle has killed Brock Lesnar for me even more than Roman. Starting to shoot hate the dude.

 

Anyhow, for a silver lining, I guess Roman has been saying he wants a program with Bryan which I would surmise means he obviously is ready for a heel run.

[Mad Dog]

I really just want the belt off of Lesnar at this point. I'm tired of the part time champion shit and the terrible matches he usually has more often than not.