Dave Meltzer stuff

[Fando]

Dave has said that there is evidence of the posted texts being edited and a defamation lawsuit being filed against the woman so that's one explanation of his response.

 

Difficult to see how this makes Elgin look any better unless both her and Vic Venom Bytes' screenshots were all edited.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

 

Dave has said that there is evidence of the posted texts being edited and a defamation lawsuit being filed against the woman so that's one explanation of his response.

 

Difficult to see how this makes Elgin look any better unless both her and Vic Venom Bytes' screenshots were all edited.

 

Elgin obviously texted that stuff to himself, anyhow.

[hammerva]

Man I don't know what his previous relationships were but man it must have been rough because he has always had the "you know women can be crazy' attitude many many times

 

And if all of these texts were edited to make him look bad, how come this VicVemonBytes douche on Twitter that seem to start most of the slut shaming hasn't been screaming about it. if anyone would want to get pissed about his character it would be him

[Bix]

Man I don't know what his previous relationships were but man it must have been rough because he has always had the "you know women can be crazy' attitude many many times.

[joeg]

Listening to the podcast on Elgin now because I wanted to know what people were talking about. Its just Meltzer going on and on in his trademark inarticulate manner about something he doesn't seem to know all the details about.

[El-P]

Its just Meltzer going on and on in his trademark inarticulate manner about something he doesn't seem to know all the details about.

 

Yep. Strikes me as Meltz being his awkward self as opposed to anything outrageous and repulsive as it was portrayed by a single line out of context (which doesn't surprise me one bit considering the name of the Twitter account in question).

[FMKK]

I don't think it's unfair to suggest that Meltzer often displays a shortsightedness about social issues outside of his wrestling/MMA bubble and that he will vouch for/play down negatives about guys he likes.

[El-P]

Agreed, at least with the first part of the sentence (about downplaying stuff on purpose for guys he likes, I can't think of something specific).

 

But on this particular instance, there's really not much to get outraged about. For now at least.

[sek69]

Outrage, no, but Dave really should be more aware of the changing landscape and not put himself in a situation where he comes off like he's defending scumbags and/or victim bashing.

 

 

As far as the second part, the most famous example that comes to mind is Ric Flair. He's had a gigantic blind spot for him and his drunken antics for years and it took his body shutting down from years of abuse for Dave to finally come to terms with it.

[El-P]

I was thinking about more similar cases, like Austin physically abusing Debra for instance. I wonder what his reporting looked like at the time.

 

I agree that the whole "in Japan they don't care about the other stuff, at all" comes off rather dismissing of "the other stuff", which involves implied rape, to focus on the fact Elgin talked badly about Jeff Cobb, the usual wrestling bubble crap. Odd sense of what really matters in this whole story.

[Fando]

Is it being dismissive or is that realistically what the company is more concerned with? Why are people taking what sounds like Dave summarizing the view from NJPW office, that if not for the Cobb texts Elgin would not have any heat in Japan over a rape claim against a student from his school, as his personal opinion on what's "actually important"?

 

Also, on blind spots, it was really clear when Dave was on Jericho's podcast last, even after doing that whole recap of the interview Jericho did with Nancy's sister, that it hasn't really sunk it how Benoit was not a great guy at all before That Weekend.

[iamthedoctor]

I was thinking about more similar cases, like Austin physically abusing Debra for instance. I wonder what his reporting looked like at the time.

 

I agree that the whole "in Japan they don't care about the other stuff, at all" comes off rather dismissing of "the other stuff", which involves implied rape, to focus on the fact Elgin talked badly about Jeff Cobb, the usual wrestling bubble crap. Odd sense of what really matters in this whole story.

 

If it had happenned during Austin's 2001 run with WWE would they have just swept it under the carpet and ignored it?

 

Rich Swann wasent really a big enough name which led to his suspension but was wondering would WWE cover it up if say it happenned with a Main Event guy?

[joeg]

See you guys are acting like Meltzer is a bad person who condones violence against women. I dont think he's a bad person who condones violence against women, I just think he's socially awkward and can't put two sentences together or eloquently verbalize his own thoughts and feelings if his life depended on.

[El-P]

I dont think he's a bad person who condones violence against women, I just think he's socially awkward and can't put two sentences together or eloquently verbalize his own thoughts and feelings if his life depended on.

 

At the end of the day, I think that summarizes it perfectly.

[Loss]

I agree with that. Also, I think what Dave wants to say, which he can't quite say the way he wants, is that it's hard for him to get upset about guys with less power doing the same things guys with more power do freely and get away with. He doesn't want to apply a double standard. So he's not going to call for disciplinary action against a wrestler if it's something Vince McMahon has also done. He's trying to side with labor, basically. Of course, the answer isn't to make both wrongs acceptable, it's to make both wrongs unacceptable.

[Edwin]

This was a clever response to a tweet from Meltzer:

 

https://twitter.com/Mitchel36406437/status/941716214849638405

[FMKK]

Dave is back on his what I like is factually great and if you dont like it youre stupid bullshit again. Someone get him off Twitter.

[Microstatistics]

Dave is back on his what I like is factually great and if you dont like it youre stupid bullshit again. Someone get him off Twitter.

 

To be fair, people on the board do that as well.

[Edwin]

Someone tweeted Meltzer compared the Young Bucks to the Midnight Express and Jim Cornette saw it and replied...

 

Get the popcorn ready.

[Mad Dog]

I bet there were old timers bitching about those damn kids and their flippy flop shit when the Midnights were in their prime.

[Johnny Sorrow]

The reactions to that clip thats everywhere are fucking hilarious. MMA guy and Old wrestlers losing their shit over it while sharing the clip. Any promotion is good promotion. I dont particularly like the Bucks style and all that shit, but watching them work the system and getting rich and famous is a joy.

[Victator]

I bet there were old timers bitching about those damn kids and their flippy flop shit when the Midnights were in their prime.

Nick Bockwinkel's father was a wrestler so he knew the real old timers. They would often complain that the generation after theirs did too many tackles and were going to cripple themselves at an early age.

[Mad Dog]

Yeah, the more things change and all that. Those damn kids and their fancy wrestling.

[FMKK]

Nah though, that Young Bucks spot was the sort of thing youd be embarrassed to be caught watching by a family member or something

[stomperspc]

I think the problem with the generation gap argument is that it assumes that wrestling is always evolving for the better and it ignores the fact that the worldwide pro wrestling audience is significantly smaller right now than it has historically been. Dave’s point on the Midnight Express is valid to an extent (Cornette would come off far better if he acknowledged that there are obvious similarities between the Bucks and MX). My counterargument would be that MX’s athletic spots were generally executed in a less “choreographed” manner (for lack of a better term), they got over in front of bigger and more varied audiences, and their comedy had a broader slapstick appeal rather than the ironic appeal of a lot of the Bucks comedy spots. Dave seems to be taking the stance that as long as a group of people like a certain style that there is no such thing as taking things too far. Not sure that I buy that. Logic dictates that at some point the old guys complaining about the young kids taking it too far will be right. At some point it goes too far. I am not saying the Young Bucks are that line but I wish Dave and others weren’t so dismissive of the idea that line exists. I think it is perfectly valid for some fans to view the Midnight Express’ innovation as generally being positive and viewing the Bucks’ stuff as a step too far. It is a matter of taste.

 

Likewise, the viewpoint that if the live crowd likes a spot or a match and there is no extra level of danger involved then the spot/match “worked” ignores the fact that something else could potentially have broader appeal. By its own historical standards, wrestling is not very popular now. ROH and the Bullet Club are still very much niche entities in a relatively small industry. It is good for the Bucks that they have their audience and have been able to grow that audience somewhat, but it is still a small, niche audience. It seems like a slippery slope. This is an extreme example but if a match gets over in front of 50 fans all with the same very specific tastes, does that mean the match worked and the wrestlers did the right thing even if a different type of presentation might have held broader appeal? Satisfying your core audience is better than not appealing to any audience but not sure the reaction of that audience should be the benchmark for what works or doesn’t work.