Dave Meltzer stuff

[sek69]

That's what I was hoping. I really wish this can be the year we finally break the lucha logjam.

[Victator]

It shouldn't get lost in all the box office jibber jabber that Dave straight up called Ryan Satin an asshole on Twitter today.

Its rare to see Dave drop his scholory facade to jump in the mud with the rest of us.

 

He is completely in the right. Nobody has championed Flair more than Dave.

[Eduardo]

I'm really surprised to hear about the different interpretations of "pop culture icon". El Santo is one, Hulk Hogan is barely one to me but he is. Love Ric Flair, but I wouldn't label him as one and don't see how that's a hot take.

[Matt D]

Hey, I saw El Santo in the actual movie.

[Edwin]

OK...

 

I love all of the UFC bubble posters and Meltzer acolytes who think I genuinely care about the fighting merits of Ronda Rousey and Conor McGregor - LOL! - or try to argue that it actually matters when it comes to their drawing power.

No one said you cared about their fighting merits, but simply because you don't care it doesn't mean that millions of people don't care...

 

And yes, their fighting merits have a lot to do with their drawing power. The reason Ronda became a draw in the UFC was because she was finishing other WMMA fighters fairly easily. Hadn't she been able to dominate them, she wouldn't have become the star she was.

 

You refuted your own argument by calling Ronda a fraud, secretly a terrible fighter, whatever your point was.

I never said Ronda was a fraud, secretly a terrible fighter or anything along those lines. I implied she was a limited fighter that brought into her own hype and that's why she got wrecked. Which if you actually knew anything about fighting, would know as it's pretty obvious.

 

"Fraud" or not, she had a shelf life in the fighting dept. Even if Conor is a million times better as a fighter, he too has a shelf life.

Conor is a smart man. He's done some acting, has been featured on various video games, is working on a whisky company, on a clothing company, etc, etc, etc.

 

Conor knows this is his moment and he's milking it for all he can.

 

John Cena can wrestle for another 20 years and generate excitement and publicity for WrestleMania, etc. Ronda and McGregor can't fight for another 20. THAT'S my point.

Conor already said he wasn't going to stick around for long which is something you obviously didn't know.

 

He's been clear he's been in it for the big payday and then he's working on other projects and heading out to live the life he's always wanted to live.

 

I also have no idea why you're trying to predict the future and how that could affect the current moment we are in which is what Meltzer and everyone is talking about. We are not talking about who will be remember more in 20 years or will not be remember in 20 years. We are talking about the current moment we live in.

 

No, Ron Howard and Molly Ringwald are not going to care about "Big Match John" when it comes to casting their next secret project, but Cena's wrestling base will.

Cena's wrestling base is small. Maybe even smaller than McGregor UFC base.

 

McGregor is the biggest draw in UFC drawing 1.65M buys in the second Nate Diaz fight, 1.5M buys for the first Nate Diaz fight, 1.4M buys for the José Aldo fight and 1.3M for the Eddie Alvarez fight.

 

We could also add the 4.4M buys he did as the B-side in the Floyd Mayweather Jr. fight.

 

Cena on the other hand has never drawn those numbers by himself and much less as the B-side which was when he main evented WrestleMania 28 against the Rock.

 

And I hope you don't even try and debate that Cena was the A-side against the Rock which would obviously be absurd.

 

Wrestling may be even more of a niche than UFC, but let's not act like there aren't millions of wrestling fans out there still. Hollywood obviously dwarfs wrestling (and UFC), but that doesn't mean wrestling publicity isn't important too.

OK...

 

The UFC and MMA are also niché, but let's not act like there aren't millions of UFC and MMA out there still...

 

Hollywood obviously dwarfs the UFC and MMA (and wrestling), but that doesn't mean UFC and MMA publicity isn't important too.

 

Both Rock and Cena used wrestling as a springboard to become successful movie stars. Their Hollywood careers would've been a much different story if they were never wrestlers. Part of Rock's transition from Disney movies (Tooth Fairy, etc.) to badass action star included his WWE comeback. It was all calculated for one thing to feed into the next.

OK, and?

 

No one is debating against that as it's obvious...

 

If the Rock had not gotten into wrestling and had followed his walk into becoming a football player like he wanted to, he would not have become the movie star he has.

 

Ronda and McGregor aren't going to be able to fight in 20 years and then use that to springboard to something else (Hollywood, etc.). By then, they'll be long gone and forgotten. Whereas, Big Match John could conceivably still be wrestling by then, generating publicity, and keeping himself in the public eye to set up projects outside of wrestling. UFC fighters and people in other sports don't have the same luxury of time.

Again, who's talking about 20 years from now? No one but yourself. We are all talking about the current moment.

 

And lol @ people in other sports don't have the same luxury of time. That is laughable and it obviously proves you do not follow, watch or know enough about any other sports and just live in this pro-wrestling bubble.

[Edwin]

You know if Cena lost his mind and did an MMA fight he would draw a lot of money. If CM Punk could do a big buy rate, Cena could do something bigger. He would get killed and has enough sense not to. But it would draw a lot of eyeballs.

I won't argue that Cena wouldn't do a big buy rate if he fought in MMA, but the card that CM Punk fought on did not do a big buy rate.

 

Also the card was not solely sold on Punk making his UFC debut as he wasn't even in the main event or co-main event.

 

Punk fought at UFC 203 which drew 450K buys which isn't considered a big buy rate (unless you compare it to most of the disastrous PPV numbers of this year). That proved that Punk was not the draw that people thought.

 

The fact that he did not draw the number that was expected and the fact that he got wrecked by a virtual unknown are the two reasons why they are struggling to get him another fight.

[topropepodcast]

FWIW, Ferdinand is trying to follow the Sing pattern from last year. It opened opposite Star Wars and was very successful counter programming for families. I believe the highest grossing movie ever to not be #1.

[sek69]

As someone who ends up having to watch everything kid related that comes out (my son is 5), Ferdinand looks better than most movies targeting that audience.

 

I'd expect it to do very well, and I hope Dave doesn't try to downplay it since it won't beat Star Wars.

[C.S.]

And lol @ people in other sports don't have the same luxury of time. That is laughable and it obviously proves you do not follow, watch or know enough about any other sports and just live in this pro-wrestling bubble.

As tempting as it is to go through your wall of quotes and rebut one by one, the forum software here makes that too difficult. So, let's take this from the last point.

 

I live in a wrestling bubble because I realize sports careers are finite?

 

Cena can wrestle another 20 years. Can Joe Montana return to the NFL as a football player now? THAT is what I meant.

 

But you're right that I don't like or care about UFC or other sports. I watch wrestling because it's NOT a sport, even if I do think a sports-like presentation is a better one.

[Victator]

I don't think Cena is going to be wrestling much longer. This year he very much has a kid on the last day of school vibe. But it seems like he has a nice side career lined up.

[C.S.]

I don't think Cena is going to be wrestling much longer. This year he very much has a kid on the last day of school vibe. But it seems like he has a nice side career lined up.

 

He won't wrestle full-time much longer, I agree, but nothing's stopping him from doing the Undertaker/Triple H schedule for the next 10-20 years.

[Rah]

This is also anecdotal and maybe the by-product of the circle I am in, but I don't see McGregor as a bigger name-value than Cena. It's not even close in South Africa, tbf. My partner's never watched a wrestling match in her life and she knows who Cena is. Opposite, she knows Batista (due to Guardians of the Galaxy) but didn't know that he was a wrestler before I mentioned it.

 

Apart from actual UFC fans and the Floyd/McGregor bout, I don't see any conversations about Connor at all in public or on social media. Whereas even Randy Orton is recognizable here because of the "RKO OUTTA NOWHERE~!" meme - so much so that there are still night club events being named after it or referencing it - last night being one in my city (an event with the slogan "like an RKO outta nowhere, we're back!").

 

A gross simplification but I'd wage if their pictures were held up to the random public the reactions of those who do recognise both would be similar to "John Cena!" vs "that MMA guy".

[...TG]

Not sure how many PWOers are regular 605 podcast listeners, but the latest episode has a "roundtable" with Brian, Kurt Brown, Jeff Bowdren, and Dave talking about their Japan trips. It's Dave at his best - the obsessed wrestling fan, with none of the Twitter or six star bullshit that frustrates many of us.

[GSR]

Not sure how many PWOers are regular 605 podcast listeners, but the latest episode has a "roundtable" with Brian, Kurt Brown, Jeff Bowdren, and Dave talking about their Japan trips. It's Dave at his best - the obsessed wrestling fan, with none of the Twitter or six star bullshit that frustrates many of us.

 

Agreed, that was an excellent listen. Barring the tremendous Lance Russell tribute, this was the first episode of the 6:05 I'd listened to in a long time, purely for the 'roundtable' discussion and it didn't disappoint. Sad to see that the 'Top 10' is still going, and even unfunnier than it used to be (Hot Dog, The Magnificent One and Brother Midnight were all atrocious). If you want to skip all that nonsense, the roundtable starts at about two hours ten minutes in.

 

[...TG]

 

 

 

Agreed, that was an excellent listen. Barring the tremendous Lance Russell tribute, this was the first episode of the 6:05 I'd listened to in a long time, purely for the 'roundtable' discussion and it didn't disappoint. Sad to see that the 'Top 10' is still going, and even unfunnier than it used to be (Hot Dog, The Magnificent One and Brother Midnight were all atrocious). If you want to skip all that nonsense, the roundtable starts at about two hours ten minutes in.

 

Wrong thread for it, but Jim Cornette was the co-host for the "Top 10" in this episode and he's always a great listen. Like with Dave, he doesn't have to do his gimmick and cut promos on modern wrestling and Donald Trump.

[PeteF3]

I will say that Brian has openly expressed that he's getting tired of the top 10 himself and was thinking of making it be more about topics (What If, Slaughtering a Sacred Cow) than characters. I hope he continues with that. A few recent episodes I think skipped the top 10 entirely.

[Matt D]

It dawned on me that I never read what 1995 Dave had to say about Hogan burning the observer, so I went back and looked.

 

 

 

The show opened with one of the weirdest interviews probably in wrestling history. Hulk Hogan, Sting and Savage came out. First Hogan dumped his black wrestling attire in a burning garbage can. He then went off on a tangent about "rag sheets" which is a term those in the business unfamiliar with how the real world operates refer to newsletters such as this (as if this newsletter should be put in a grouping with anything else). Hogan threw a tantrum about a report that said The Giant was going to win the Battle Royal (which couldn't have even come from here because the last thing we wrote on the subject was that Sting or Savage were the best bets to win) and how they were wrong, which pretty well tipped everyone off that the Giant wasn't going to win. He also said it was reported Savage wouldn't be in the show because of an arm injury (it had been known for weeks here that Savage was going to eschew surgery and work the Battle Royal). He then said that the Savage arm injury was a total swerve on everyone including the wrestlers in the dressing room and that Savage's arm was fine (Savage had legitimately torn his tricep and his left arm was barely half the size of the right). Even weirder was even if the injury wasn't real, the major storyline of the show is that Savage had an arm injury and the announcers never acknowledged Hogan's saying Savage's arm was fine. He then threw the "rag sheet" in the same burning garbage can saying "Observe this," and said that it was a dinosaur and that the internet is the real story. I suspect as his popularity and drawing power continues to drop he'll get even more bitter. Since it appeared to be directed at me, I took it as a tremendous compliment.

[Victator]

I remember seeing this when it aired and was very confused. It would be years before I knew Dave Meltzer even existed. I honestly can't remember the first time I heard of Meltzer. Maybe in computer class searching for wrestling stuff. Where I tried to sort out who Mark was.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Dave telling his story of a girl recognizing him at Hot Topic has made my $3.99 Cyber Monday re-subscription worth it.

[NintendoLogic]

Was he there to buy a Young Bucks shirt?

[SPS]

He said he was there with his son.

[FMKK]

I want to heard Dave's thoughts on Raw, I really do but his interminable arguments with Alvarez where they spend minutes talking across each other are absolutely unbearable. They spent about five minutes going back and forth over the psychology of Reigns hitting the punch on Jordan after their match last night and it really wasn't anything of consequence worthy of getting bogged down on.

[Jmare007]

I want to heard Dave's thoughts on Raw, I really do but his interminable arguments with Alvarez where they spend minutes talking across each other are absolutely unbearable. They spent about five minutes going back and forth over the psychology of Reigns hitting the punch on Jordan after their match last night and it really wasn't anything of consequence worthy of getting bogged down on.

 

I mean, I agree but they've always done it. Alvarez makes an ironic comment/joke, Dave takes it as a serious opinion (sometimes to make his own joke, sometimes the sarcasm goes over his head) and for some reason Alvarez decides to engage in a useless back and forth that will last minutes. It's kind of their thing.

[FMKK]

 

I want to heard Dave's thoughts on Raw, I really do but his interminable arguments with Alvarez where they spend minutes talking across each other are absolutely unbearable. They spent about five minutes going back and forth over the psychology of Reigns hitting the punch on Jordan after their match last night and it really wasn't anything of consequence worthy of getting bogged down on.

 

I mean, I agree but they've always done it. Alvarez makes an ironic comment/joke, Dave takes it as a serious opinion (sometimes to make his own joke, sometimes the sarcasm goes over his head) and for some reason Alvarez decides to engage in a useless back and forth that will last minutes. It's kind of their thing.

 

 

Sometimes it doesn't bother me too much when I'm listening in the background or whatever but I must have been more focused today or whatever because it was just so grating. They must have the least chemistry/rapport of any audio pairing around

[Zoo Enthusiast]

I was more annoyed by him talking about Nese being good.