Comments that don't warrant a thread 2010-2011

[goodhelmet]

Dibiase had the #1 Mid South match voted on at DVDVR. He was also in the #3, #7, #8, #10, #15, #18 & #19 matches. The idea he never had a great ceareer defining match is bullshit. The misconception is that he was some great technical wrestler like Flair or Steamboat. He was a great brawler who was a better brawler than Brody and others known as great brawlers. In his WWF run, he was a great character with memorable angles and vignettes.

[KrisZ]

The thing on DiBiase is that he made his rep as a technical wrestler in matches that no one in the internet age has seen in his late 70's-81 work due to the lack of footage. What we do have though is right on point with what Will said.

[Loss]

Dibiase had the #1 Mid South match voted on at DVDVR. He was also in the #3, #7, #8, #10, #15, #18 & #19 matches. The idea he never had a great ceareer defining match is bullshit. The misconception is that he was some great technical wrestler like Flair or Steamboat. He was a great brawler who was a better brawler than Brody and others known as great brawlers. In his WWF run, he was a great character with memorable angles and vignettes.

I don't disagree with this. But DiBiase isn't grouped with Cactus Jack or guys like that. He's more often compared to Flair and Steamboat and Windham and Bret Hart and such -- that classic-style wrestler. He just doesn't have any great matches in that style. Blame it on positioning or whatever, but they're not there.

[El-P]

I've seen a whole lot of DiBiase in Mid-South and some in AJ, and despite being even better than during his WWF stint, I can't think of a single *great* wrestling match. This is not a knock on DiBiase, I like him a lot, I just don't see him as a great match worker.

I agree the perception of him being a "technical worker" hurt him because he was better as a vicious brawling heel.

Is there a lot of DiBiase in the AJ set ?

[Victator]

I don't disagree with this. But DiBiase isn't grouped with Cactus Jack or guys like that. He's more often compared to Flair and Steamboat and Windham and Bret Hart and such -- that classic-style wrestler. He just doesn't have any great matches in that style. Blame it on positioning or whatever, but they're not there.

I think Barry Windham is a good guy to compare him too.

[Loss]

Windham has the great traditional style matches, which is in his favor.

[smkelly]

You guys don't think any of the 1988 series with Savage were great matches?

 

Matches with Jake and Warrior are at least ***.

 

Isn't that the definition of a broomstick worker?

 

Ok, Flair could carry Luger to a ****+ match, but Luger was a lot better than Warrior or Virgil.

1. Of the ones I have seen, no.

 

2. *** is slightly above-average. Nothing extravagant to me.

 

3. Flair is the definition of a broomstick worker. It meant that he was so good at what he did, an inanimate object could have the match of its existence with Flair. It was an unbecoming phrase for some of the no-name no-skill wrestlers Flair was facing at the time.

 

4. This point makes DiBiase look even weaker as a super-worker in relation to Flair.

[Loss]

I have no desire to turn this into a DiBiase bashing session. Flair certainly doesn't need DiBiase to be downplayed to prop up his own case. It's just that he's not the type of wrestler he's professed to be. That's really the whole of the argument.

[El-P]

I don't disagree with this. But DiBiase isn't grouped with Cactus Jack or guys like that. He's more often compared to Flair and Steamboat and Windham and Bret Hart and such -- that classic-style wrestler. He just doesn't have any great matches in that style. Blame it on positioning or whatever, but they're not there.

I think Barry Windham is a good guy to compare him too.

 

Barry Windham at his peak smokes DiBiase seven ways to sunday. That said, to me peak Windham smokes the vast majority of the workers I've seen.

[goodhelmet]

Dibiase had the #1 Mid South match voted on at DVDVR. He was also in the #3, #7, #8, #10, #15, #18 & #19 matches. The idea he never had a great ceareer defining match is bullshit. The misconception is that he was some great technical wrestler like Flair or Steamboat. He was a great brawler who was a better brawler than Brody and others known as great brawlers. In his WWF run, he was a great character with memorable angles and vignettes.

I don't disagree with this. But DiBiase isn't grouped with Cactus Jack or guys like that. He's more often compared to Flair and Steamboat and Windham and Bret Hart and such -- that classic-style wrestler. He just doesn't have any great matches in that style. Blame it on positioning or whatever, but they're not there.

 

The Tenryu match from All Japan is pretty freaking great.

 

We are shifting the paradigm. However, I just listed 8 matches from Mid South that he was in that people thought were great. Some of Bret Hart's and Ric Flair's best matches were brawls. Can't say the same for Windham and Steamer. But who cares? Dibiase has a collection of great matches that were compared to not only brawls but technical matches from the Mid South period. If you were underwhelmed with the Mid South matches then understood, but the people who voted for the matches were not.

[Loss]

I have praised DiBiase in every post I have made here. Where did I say I was underwhelmed?

 

I like DiBiase just fine. But he doesn't even compare to Arn Anderson, much less Ric Flair.

 

Also, the "other people like it" defense is exactly what we roll out to criticize people like Meltzer and Alvarez when they use it to defend matches.

[goodhelmet]

I am arguing the statement that he never had a great match, not your enjoyment of him. I don't buy the argument that you have to have a great non-gimmicked match to be considered a great wrestler although I think more highly of the Tenryu-Dibiase match as his mat classic. We compare gimmick matches with standard matches all the time. Why is Dibiase demoted for having classic brawls and bloodbaths and cage matches? Also, the "other people liked it" isn't my argument. They are exhibit a, b, c, d, e, f, g, & h of Dibiase matches people should check out to see great Dibiase work.

[Victator]

I don't disagree with this. But DiBiase isn't grouped with Cactus Jack or guys like that. He's more often compared to Flair and Steamboat and Windham and Bret Hart and such -- that classic-style wrestler. He just doesn't have any great matches in that style. Blame it on positioning or whatever, but they're not there.

I think Barry Windham is a good guy to compare him too.

 

Barry Windham at his peak smokes DiBiase seven ways to sunday. That said, to me peak Windham smokes the vast majority of the workers I've seen.

 

I meant style wise they are similar. Barry is fucking awesome. Just Barry wrestles a similar style to Dibiase.

[FLIK]

The charactive process for the Festus character is something else. Great interview overall too.

 

http://tsmradio.com/coltcabana/2011/04/06/...7-luke-gallows/

Wow, his regular speaking voice is nothing like I was exspecting

[Loss]

I am arguing the statement that he never had a great match, not your enjoyment of him. I don't buy the argument that you have to have a great non-gimmicked match to be considered a great wrestler although I think more highly of the Tenryu-Dibiase match as his mat classic. We compare gimmick matches with standard matches all the time. Why is Dibiase demoted for having classic brawls and bloodbaths and cage matches? Also, the "other people liked it" isn't my argument. They are exhibit a, b, c, d, e, f, g, & h of Dibiase matches people should check out to see great Dibiase work.

I don't think you need something in that style to be considered great either. But people don't see Ric Flair and, say, Mick Foley, in the same category. If you're going to classify DiBiase as a brawler, he's a niche wrestler, which limits him. I think DiBiase is closer to Flair than Foley. In fact, I think Arn and Tully are the perfect comparisons -- widely regarded great wrestlers who don't have that classic, traditional match (although all three have some peak matches that are excellent). And by that standard, he falls short when compared to other similar wrestlers from the same era. He was in my SC Top 100 and probably would be again, but he's not someone I see at the level he's often claimed to be.

[Frankensteiner]

I've been listening to Bret Hart's podcasts and actually found out a couple of interesting things:

 

-Bret laments guys from the previous era not putting him over. I think everyone knows the Hogan situation from Summerslam, but what I didn't know was that Jake Roberts was scheduled to work a program with Bret over the IC title after WrestleMania VIII. Instead Jake declined and left the promotion. Also, as soon as Bret won the world title in '92 the plan was for Warrior to lose to him at that year's Royal Rumble. But Warrior of course was fired before that. I don't understand why they didn't just have Savage work a match with Bret at some point. They should have built that for Mania and held off on giving the belt to Yokozuna until later in the year.

 

-Apparently Bret was a huge fan of Finlay and tried to get him booked in the WWF in '92-'93. It didn't work out for whatever reason but this would have been a great program at that time. It's too bad the only match between these guys was a 5 min throwaway on Nitro.

[Death From Above]

What was the reason for Savage being in the announce booth around the time of Wrestlemania 9? Was he out injured or was it just a thing where Vince decided he was past it and stuck him in the booth to phase him out?

[Frankensteiner]

What was the reason for Savage being in the announce booth around the time of Wrestlemania 9? Was he out injured or was it just a thing where Vince decided he was past it and stuck him in the booth to phase him out?

Yeah, phased out.

[sek69]

The retirement stip was supposed to be legit, Vince wanted him in a non wrestling role. Savage felt he had more to offer, and obviously he did.

[kjh]

I thought it had more to do with Savage having heat with the returning Hulk Hogan at the time? Or is that urban myth?

[El-P]

The retirement stip was supposed to be legit, Vince wanted him in a non wrestling role. Savage felt he had more to offer, and obviously he did.

Retirement stip from WM 7 ? I don't think so. I think Savage wanted some time off with Liz as they were thinking of having a child. Then things degenerated between the two, I'm not sure when they divorced, but their relationship was probably not the best when they did the wedding angle. Savage really was phased out after Survivor Series 92, and when they began RAW. ANd it was all about Vince thinking Savage was too old, which was ridiculous, as he was a legit star at the time and could have helped a lot to build guys like Bret. His heat with Hogan culminated when Hogan came back in 93. It's amazing these two worked so much together in WCW, and that Savage ended up being Hogan's bitch again.

[Matt D]

The retirement stip was supposed to be legit, Vince wanted him in a non wrestling role. Savage felt he had more to offer, and obviously he did.

Retirement stip from WM 7 ? I don't think so. I think Savage wanted some time off with Liz as they were thinking of having a child. Then things degenerated between the two, I'm not sure when they divorced, but their relationship was probably not the best when they did the wedding angle. Savage really was phased out after Survivor Series 92, and when they began RAW. ANd it was all about Vince thinking Savage was too old, which was ridiculous, as he was a legit star at the time and could have helped a lot to build guys like Bret. His heat with Hogan culminated when Hogan came back in 93. It's amazing these two worked so much together in WCW, and that Savage ended up being Hogan's bitch again.

 

I'm pretty sure they were separated if not divorced by the end of summer in 92, which helps, in my mind, to explain the belt going back onto Flair.

[rovert]

According to Chris Hero Larry Sweeney has passed away:

http://twitter.com/#!/theChrisHero/sta...504439635939328

 

[Kronos]

According to Chris Hero Larry Sweeney has passed away:

http://twitter.com/#!/theChrisHero/sta...504439635939328

 

Wow. Suicide? OD?

 

Terrible news.

[Bix]

Well, that's terrible.