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Holy Grails


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In 1994 Chris Benoit had matches with Jerry Lawler and Terry Funk in Dennis Coraluzzo's New Jersey promotion, were they taped?

A handheld of Lawler-Benoit was posted in DVDVR (I think it might have been Bix who uploaded it). It was a good Lawler performance.

 

Negro Casas vs Fuerza Guerrera (EMLL - September 1980). It's a match that Casas has talked about in interviews before and about how it's supposely supposed to be one of the greatest matches ever.

 

Perro Aguayo vs Marty Jones (Hair vs Hair Match). This looks like it was fucking awesome.

 

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I would love to see some footage of the main matches and angles from 60's/early-70s LA and San Fran. Meltzer's bio's of Tolos and Shire made it sound like a really interesting era. Seems like that's just a dream though.

 

I'm also guessing nothing exists of the 1980 Superdome show featuring JYD vs Hayes in a Dog Collar Match coming off the big blinding angle (or even footage of the angle itself).

 

More footage of the heyday's of Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver wrestling would be cool as well.

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Basically the entire cards of the non-televised King of the Ring tournaments. There are some tasty-looking matches on those, including DiBiase vs. Steamboat 15-minute draw.

That exists as a handheld.

 

The whole show, or just that match?

 

Haven't watched it in years, but pretty sure it's the whole card. It is the only one of the pre-PPV King of the Rings that is in circulation as a handheld.
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How much footage is there of that 12-woman AJW tag from 1987 that Dave gave ***** to?

Lioness Asuka/Mika Komatsu/Kazue Nagahori/Mitsuko Nishiwaki/Etsuko Mita/Sachiko Nakamura vs. Chigusa Nagayo/Yumiko Hotta/Mika Takahashi/Mika Suzuki/Yachiyo Hirata/Yumi Ogura (About 17:30 of 50:00 Shown - All Japan Women 12/6/87)*****- Dave's quote "The main event was by far the greatest match I've ever seen live. In fact, I'd say without question it was better than any match ever held in the United States in the history of this business."

 

About 17:30 of 50 minutes is shown, the VQ is what I would call FAIR-GOOD, but this is the only version that exists.

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Isn't it a bit ironic and depressing to think that today the lamest indy show with a bunch of bakyarder ends up on youtube or homemade DVD, and footage of all this great stuff doesn't exist ?

When I was a history student, I was thinking about how nightmarish the future will be for historians of contemporary history, with the über multiplication of sources. Everything is documented now, including 99% of useless stuff. This is the same thing for wrestling. You'll have every bit of WWE NXT matches on HD, yet we won't be able to see that many Calgary Stampede matches in full, ever.

Frustration.

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John - are these old results for 1960's/1970's AJPW online or do you have them compiled through different sources?

Some from a titles spreadsheet, which is an older version here at work with more holes. Some of it from Hisa's puroresu.com, which has old results as he gets them. JWA is pretty solid... AJPW in the 70s less so. Some good IWE stuff early on.

 

John

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  • 2 weeks later...

Isn't it a bit ironic and depressing to think that today the lamest indy show with a bunch of bakyarder ends up on youtube or homemade DVD, and footage of all this great stuff doesn't exist ?

When I was a history student, I was thinking about how nightmarish the future will be for historians of contemporary history, with the über multiplication of sources. Everything is documented now, including 99% of useless stuff. This is the same thing for wrestling. You'll have every bit of WWE NXT matches on HD, yet we won't be able to see that many Calgary Stampede matches in full, ever.

Frustration.

Late to the party, but a lot of that has to do with what videotape cost back in the day. This was a problem that wasn't exclusive to wrestling, either, as networks would re-use tape for broadcasting, especially when it had stuff on that they didn't think people would re-watch. Best example of this is the first Super Bowl, as no full footage of the game exists (it got taped over by soap operas). It's very different today, as it's a lot more affordable for both companies and individuals to document just about anything. Stampede was mentioned by you and others and it wasn't just Stampede that felt that wrath here in Canada, as there have been some hockey games (famous ones in fact) from over the years that were never kept or had to be reattained in other ways/means.

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Late to the party, but a lot of that has to do with what videotape cost back in the day. This was a problem that wasn't exclusive to wrestling, either, as networks would re-use tape for broadcasting, especially when it had stuff on that they didn't think people would re-watch. Best example of this is the first Super Bowl, as no full footage of the game exists (it got taped over by soap operas). It's very different today, as it's a lot more affordable for both companies and individuals to document just about anything. Stampede was mentioned by you and others and it wasn't just Stampede that felt that wrath here in Canada, as there have been some hockey games (famous ones in fact) from over the years that were never kept or had to be reattained in other ways/means.

This is why it always surprises me that Verne Gagne saved tape from as far back as he did (at least 1966, hopefully earlier). Must've cost him a fortune not re-using tape...unless the format he was using couldn't be used twice.

 

Even then, the foresight to try and save the footage is unusual in wrestling from that time frame, I think, at least in North America.

 

Now I have heard that his storage methods were sub-standard and a lot of what he had is no longer usable, which sucks. But again, at least he tried to hold onto it.

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Late to the party, but a lot of that has to do with what videotape cost back in the day. This was a problem that wasn't exclusive to wrestling, either, as networks would re-use tape for broadcasting, especially when it had stuff on that they didn't think people would re-watch.

Yeah. A lot of the early episodes of Doctor Who have been lost for the same reason, the BBC just recorded other shit over them.

 

This is why it always surprises me that Verne Gagne saved tape from as far back as he did (at least 1966, hopefully earlier). Must've cost him a fortune not re-using tape...

Verne being in that nursing home room which was cheap enough that he had a roommate suddenly makes more sense.
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Late to the party, but a lot of that has to do with what videotape cost back in the day. This was a problem that wasn't exclusive to wrestling, either, as networks would re-use tape for broadcasting, especially when it had stuff on that they didn't think people would re-watch.

Yeah. A lot of the early episodes of Doctor Who have been lost for the same reason, the BBC just recorded other shit over them.

Dr Who and a lot of other BBC shows. Wiki's article is pretty solid on how tape was treated in those days:

 

Doctor Who missing episodes

 

Which as pretty similar to how a lot of lower level stuff in the US (such as wrestling) was treated.

 

John

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On the last Monty Python documentary, one of the Pythons (I think Terry Jones) told the story about buying the master tapes from the BBC to prevent them from being wiped as well.

 

Gotch/Hackenschmidt. Was that ever taped? If it was, was it the victim of nitrate deterioration?

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The black and white match at the beginning of the WWE opening is from 1901, and is Roeber (not sure first name) vs August Faust. Before that clip rolled out, I think Stetcher/Caddock from 1/30/20 was the oldest match believed to exist on tape. Pretty interesting.

 

Not sure about Gotch/Hackenschmidt. I don't think it exists. It may have been filmed, though.

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