goc Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 There's not really an alternative. Not to that Monday Night fix. Not to years and years of engagement, something that you've invested in for most of your life, something that appeals to childhood memories and some of the best feelings of spectator triumph and heartbreak of your life. WWE feels like "history" in a way that TNA or an indy can't. It's not about quality. It's about being part of something that is literally impossible to replace. You can find other wrestling, but you can't rewrite your life or history so that WWE wasn't a part of it. It'll always scratch slightly different itches. I am always confused when people don't seem to understand this. I don't understand it. There are a lot of things I used to enjoy as a child that I no longer enjoy today as a an adult. My past enjoyment of those things plays no role in how I currently view those things. Instead of complaining about them and bemoaning the fact that these things I once enjoyed used to be so much better, I don't watch/listen/participate in/play with or consume them any more. Is allegiance to WWE like an allegiance to a sports team for some people? Fans of the Cleveland Browns might do nothing but bitch and moan about how shitty their team is, but the Browns are still their team, dammit, and they still enjoy watching and supporting them, regardless of the misery that comes with it. That I can understand (even if I don't personally feel the same way about wrestling). Yea I don't really get the whole "I love WWF the most out of everything because I watched it growing up" thing. Well I did too but that doesn't mean I'd even consider for one single second watching an episode of the 1991 Superstars that I was watching when I was 7 years old over the 1981 Southeastern that I discovered 2 years ago. WWF is not some indelible part of my life and childhood. WRESTLING is though even if I happened to be introduced to it through WWF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 One of the things that makes wrestling great when it's at its best is fans who are willing to make fools of themselves because they love it so much. Trying to stifle that seems petty. Instead of making them switch into WWE merchandise, they should have encouraged everyone else to wear costumes. This is all too meta. I know what's going on here (or at least I think I know). WWE is trying its best to control 'The Reality Era' (as the company has dubbed it). Its like an old man trying to show that he is hip and with the times by buying any iPad but having absolutely no idea how to use it outside of sending/receiving email. WWE is trying to have its cake and eat it to by admitting its in the 'Reality Era', but still trying to control the narrative. We are at a point where fans are 'hijacking' shows and all that stuff that started in Canada (Bizarro Land) and the North East of the U.S. has spread and WWE is trying its best to curb it and keep the marks marks with a little spontaneous and true fan interaction as possible. WWE has NO PROBLEM with people wearing Warrior masks (once WWE staff passed it out) on the following Monday Night Raw after Warrior's death, but Joe Blow sitting front row dressed as Warrior is a problem? The show is in the ring and WWE realizes that all the talking and lip service delivered over the year about the fans being apart of the show is more true than anyone in WWE actually wants. WWE received mainstream media coverage after RR 2015 and it was mainly about how everyone in the audience took a huge dump on the show. WWE booked WM30 the way they did to avoid a HUGE fucking bullet of people taking a huge dump on Batista/Orton. Its all just too meta for me. Its The ''Reality Era" with a group of people struggling ever so desperately to control the narrative at all costs. The fans want one thing and Vince is telling us what we really want. This story is familiar. Rim (now known as BlackBerry) in 2002 has stock selling at 200 plus dollar a share. Now you can get BlackBerry stock for less than 20 dollars. What do I think fans should do? Realize that WWE is a corporation and its not about TRUE FUN, but rather corporate fun. That means cop orate flare and whatever the company will approve. Its the worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 You guys are making so much of this costume thing. I remember being at a Chicago show 7 years ago and seeing them make the clown super-fan guy move from opposite the hard-cam to front row on the other side of the ring. It's just a TV production thing and it's been this way for a long time. It has nothing to do with the Reality Era or Daniel Bryan or silencing fans or whatever. And the Daniel Bryan thing is so silly. Think this through. They told security to allow a certain number of Daniel Bryan signs and then cut it off after a point? Did they count to 50 signs? The way this stuff works is WWE tells security to confiscate anything with vulgarity and then anything with a key word like "TNA". They don't tell some security guy with no product knowledge to count the number of signs that say "Daniel Bryan" or "Yes" and cut it off after a certain number. My guess is the fans had too many signs in general and were told to get rid of some. People are so desperate to feel persecuted by this company. WWE didn't even alter the Rumble audio of Reigns getting destroyed by the crowd when they showed it on RAW the next night in front of 5 million people. There was a "We don't want Roman Reigns" sign opposite the hard cam during all of RAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 You guys are making so much of this costume thing. I remember being at a Chicago show 7 years ago and seeing them make the clown super-fan guy move from opposite the hard-cam to front row on the other side of the ring. It's just a TV production thing and it's been this way for a long time. It has nothing to do with the Reality Era or Daniel Bryan or silencing fans or whatever. And the Daniel Bryan thing is so silly. Think this through. They told security to allow a certain number of Daniel Bryan signs and then cut it off after a point? Did they count to 50 signs? The way this stuff works is WWE tells security to confiscate anything with vulgarity and then anything with a key word like "TNA". They don't tell some security guy with no product knowledge to count the number of signs that say "Daniel Bryan" or "Yes" and cut it off after a certain number. My guess is the fans had too many signs in general and were told to get rid of some. People are so desperate to feel persecuted by this company. WWE didn't even alter the Rumble audio of Reigns getting destroyed by the crowd when they showed it on RAW the next night in front of 5 million people. There was a "We don't want Roman Reigns" sign opposite the hard cam during all of RAW. Right on. I'm picturing ticket takers making a shitty wage having to count Daniel Bryan signs. Haha. Though I still think it was shitty about the costumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 But I don't dress up like one of the Doctors and go out in public dressed like that - which I could, because a couple of them were quite stylish dressers. To me, that crosses the line between super-fandom and "hey look at me, I have issues." Except, there's a difference between walking out onto the street dressed like that vs. some kind of comic convention or live wrestling event. Those two scenarios are not exactly the same as "going out in public" and doing mundane things like shopping at the supermarket, buying coffee, etc. while fully dressed as Dr. Who or Sting. Even if it's not for you (and it's not for me either, truth be told), surely you can still see the distinction? I see the distinction, yes. But I also feel there is a difference between a fan convention and a live event. At a convention you're going to be around a ton of people in costume, at an event, probably not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 You guys are making so much of this costume thing. I remember being at a Chicago show 7 years ago and seeing them make the clown super-fan guy move from opposite the hard-cam to front row on the other side of the ring. It's just a TV production thing and it's been this way for a long time. It has nothing to do with the Reality Era or Daniel Bryan or silencing fans or whatever. I agree...that's what I'm saying. I really think that anything any fan does in sight of the camera that production thinks might distract the viewer is going to get removed...fans in costumes, clowns, whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 You guys are making so much of this costume thing. I remember being at a Chicago show 7 years ago and seeing them make the clown super-fan guy move from opposite the hard-cam to front row on the other side of the ring. It's just a TV production thing and it's been this way for a long time. It has nothing to do with the Reality Era or Daniel Bryan or silencing fans or whatever. I agree...that's what I'm saying. I really think that anything any fan does in sight of the camera that production thinks might distract the viewer is going to get removed...fans in costumes, clowns, whatever. But how long is guys in costumes going to distract people during a three hour show unless they have the short term memory of a gnat with Alzheimer's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 I don't like their decision on the costumes thing as long as the fans aren't making a scene of themselves. I think it makes the show less fun. But it's not WWE declaring war on their fans' freedoms. They've always been sensitive about the front row right opposite the hard cam. Those fans can't bring big signs either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 No, it was the usual Thread Killer post where you try way too hard and completely miss the mark. No. I barely tried at all, yet managed to hit the mark dead on. It was uncanny, really. I actually managed to impress even myself. But how long is guys in costumes going to distract people during a three hour show unless they have the short term memory of a gnat with Alzheimer's? They've always been sensitive about the front row right opposite the hard cam. Those fans can't bring big signs either. Like I said in my original post, it's a production thing. I know it sounds goofy (almost as goofy as dressing up like a wrestler to go to a live event) but they have this hardcore mentality of wanting the viewer at home focusing on the ring or wherever else the camera goes, at the expense of all else. I went to a RAW at the Skydome back in 98 with a guy who was studying Radio/TV production at the time and I remember him telling me it's like that at a lot of live television broadcasts, sporting or otherwise. I'm not sure if this is true, but he said he heard of some production people asking fans sitting in sightlines at live events to remove hats with the Nike symbol, or cover it up with electrical tape - and turn a t-shirt with a particular logo inside out. I don't know if that is because it was supposedly distracting, or because they weren't being paid by Nike as a sponsor, or they had a competing sponsor who didn't want their competitor's logo on the live TV broadcast, or what. Point is, they have some weird rules when it comes to what they'll allow to show up on camera, for legal, sponsorship or production reasons. I don't know that it means they're trying to kill the fun - they may have had other valid reasons. Or at least, reasons they thought were valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 I totally get the "production reason why", but it's dopey. A viewer will go , "Hey, look at the guys in costumes" for about 30 seconds tops over the course of a minute of WWE quick cut shooting and then go back to watching the ring where things are going on. It's worrying about nothing. No one is ever going to watch This TV and not notice what's going on in a shot because people in the background look wacky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Easily could of been used as a selling point for the network "Look at the WWE universe dressing up as Superstars that you can revisit for only $9.99 on the WWE network". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 In other news, Ziggler and Bryan had a pretty good 10-minute match to cap off a Gauntlet on SD last night. I didn't see the full gauntlet, but one thing that immediately came to mind after watching Ziggler/Bryan tear it up and then the post-match was that the WWE really should've just set up Mania this way - Ziggler vs. Bryan vs. Barrett (Intercontinental Title Match, ladder or not) Harper vs. Ambrose in some sort of "hardcore-lite" match similar to when Big Show was holding the Hardcore Championship in 01'. What I mean by that is, it doesn't have to be bloody or full of crazy high spots, but a basic brawl with a couple of weapon shots and a clear story of Harper being a monster lunatic and Ambrose being a reckless loose cannon - you give em' 10-12 minutes. Maybe Falls Count Anywhere ala Savage/Crush at WM10? You give me those two matches in the undercard, this card looks significantly better just because it would've given me the sense that more is happening on the show. One complaint I had about last year's show was that it was essentially a "2-match" show split into 3 matches (Bryan vs. Evolution and Lesnar/Taker). This year, it's a 3 match show with two clusterfuck multi-mans thrown in. For a four hour show, I wish there were more threads worth following and caring about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Moved the arguments of getting laid versus not getting laid dressing as a wrestler to its own topic since it's not WWE centric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 In the post Wrestlemania Europe tour WWE is running the same night in Nuremberg, Germany and Zürich, Switzerland (the only show in Switzerland this time around). Take a guess which show Cesaro will be working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 Well, next time I go to a house show, I'm dressing up like this. Saw this in the toy section of Target today while getting my nephew a stuffed animal Pikachu. Upon reflection, tomorrow I will own it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 Highly detailed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 WWE just made a 'What if Michael Bay direct WrestleMania?' video. It got me thinking, WWE wants to be entertainment so bad- why not get someone like Kevin Smith, Quentin Tarantino, etc. to direct a PPV. Sit Kevin Dunn's ass out for one night and have someone else call the shots from the truck, etc. I would even want WWE to go as far as letting the director choose the set props, PPV colors, graphics, etc. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Robert Rodriguez considering what Lucha Underground has looked like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 I do think about that when I watch Lucha Underground. Like, WWE has tons of slick production equipment and they are the ones who want to be in the movie business, why haven't they been doing the stuff Lucha Underground is doing now for years and years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 They have no imagination or creativity on the production side. One trick pony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 It's Dunn. It's bugging me since I don't know where I heard it, maybe that writer who was on JR's podcast, but someone in the know was talking about how any mid-level NBA producer would do an endlessly better job than Dunn and would die to get a chance to update the production value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 it was announced in a USA/WWE press release that the Slammy Awards are moving to the fist quarter of the year. Odd. They can't possibly being doing another one right away also in the first time I can remember in forever the company has booked stars on the circuit leading to mania. Reigns is on Conan tomorrow and Cena is on Kimmel Wednesday. Being on the West coast helps I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 I think the best night for them to do it is after the Slammys or even the Grammys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBzz2YoqpZ8&feature=youtu.be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9NpfjYOYxk Just watched this and it was pretty awesome. Not sure if that training video was on TV or not I have not been watching at all the past month after enjoying the build to and the event of Fast Lane. I like the line from Rusev that Cena isn't the competitor he used to be. I think they really messed up when they tried to position Cena as the "old man" of the roster. The crowd didn't buy that at all and it doesn't work. They could however sell the idea that Cena isn't the same as he used to be after the years and years of TLC, Hell in a Cell, Last Man Standing, I Quit, etc matches that have broken him down. I'd like to see him pass out at WrestleMania and maybe have them play up the idea that maybe Cena isn't Superman anymore. But not that he's too fucking old. The problem with Cena isn't that his character is boring it's that they won't DO ANYTHING with it. There have been a myriad of better things to do with his character, none of which include turning heel, that they could have done ever since the loss to The Rock at WrestleMania 28. But he just kept doing the same ol' thing. The Bray Wyatt feud was a gold mine of missed opportunities where Wyatt could have drudged up all kinds of people from Cena's past to screw with him. They could have used that feud to build both their characters and had they done a better story then Wyatt losing in the end wouldn't hurt him as bad (even though I still think he kind of sucks) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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