WrestleMania 30 (Yes! yes! yes! Yes!)

[sek69]

It was interesting to see how the overall theme of the show seemed to be one era ending and another beginning. This was the first time it really felt like something different was taking place (even before the streak ended), and it had more "Wrestlemania moments" in one show than there's been in the last few Manias.

 

Looking back, it kind of seems like they did the Hulk/Austin/Rock open to establish they respect the legends before they ran a show full of almost every long time star putting a new guy over. I agree there's no way Cena was winning his match if Taker was losing his.

[goodhelmet]

John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt - Rewatch (Through the miracle of the WWE Network)

- Dylan thought this was a very good match on the podcast last night. I told him I would rewatch it when I wasn't in a room full of guys looking for high spots and big finishes. Early on, the crowd wants to get into the match with dueling Cena-Wyatt chants. After viewing, the problem is they worked an arena match in a stadium setting. Cena didn't really get a nice shine to start off and there were no cutoffs or transitions leading to Wyatt controlling the match. Compare to the HHH match earlier where Bryan was hitting big moves early before Hunter finally settled on destroying the arm. Wyatt's character is great and his commentary is great but I think it gets lost in the stadium air. Wyatt's begging Cena to unleash his hate and Cena going to the dark side would have worked better on a RAW main event or smaller PPV. Cena's hesitation allows Bray to control with his unorthodox offense. Wyatt locking on sleepers and headlocks isn't really the right strategy for this match when he was probably taught to do that so the crowd could rally Cena but they don't. When Cena does comeback and is about to do the 5 knuckle shuffle, great spot when Wyatt pops up in the spider walk and great reaction by Cena and the crowd! The crowd is ready to explode but the wrestlers aren't responding. Once Wyatt catches Cena from the top into the powerbomb, the crowd comes alive and it comes across better without 8 guys drowning out the sound and from this point forward, it is all good. Having been to a Mania before in a stadium, the crowd is clearly into the match but we are getting the pockets of sound where they don't unite in noise. I love Wyatt dancing a jig as the crowd is singing "He Got the Whole World In His Hands". Cena jumping on the Family instead of Wyatt was a nice surprise. Cena is still hesitating to unleash the hate (ignoring he has been in some bloody wars and nasty gimmick matches). Great camera angle as Harper's foot comes into the camera connecting to Cena's face leading to the Wyatt senton. I love Cena getting his revenge by driving Harper through the barricade. Cena begging Wyatt to tap after he reverses Sister Abigail into the STF was awesome. Wyatt begging Cena to hit him with the chair leading to Rowan getting tagged instead should have led to Sister Abigail finishing it off. If Wyatt ends the match after that spot with Sister Abigail, this goes down as a classic. I am so glad I rewatched the match and it was another legitimate great match on the show. This match would be remembered as fondly as Bray-Bryan if it happened on E Chamber or on RAW with Bray going over. HUGE Thumbs UP on replay!!!

[goodhelmet]

Just rewatched Taker vs. Brock and it was about what i thought it was, probably worse. It was really sad watching Taker not being able to get leverage on the German suplexes dished out by Brock. We noticed it last night but the fact there was about 2 feet between the mat and Lesnar's head on the tombstone looked really bad. The crowd reaction still makes this a must see moment. If you fast forward to the finish and the crowd reaction, you have a great indescribable moment.

[RingoPlaysDrums]

I rewatched it earlier and thought it was better than I did initially as well.

 

Here's what I said somewhere else:

 

I think it went a bit too long and they could've booked a better, more memorable finish (even if Cena goes over - Wyatt passing out in the STF or something similar) but I dug most of it. Bray's been on fire this year and his work here is really good, trying to get into Cena's head, attempting to simultaneously push his buttons and crush him. Dragging Cena up by his ears, stamping on his hands, surprising him with that spider pose. He scored some sick counters and I loved the Dark Knight "finish me" spots. Cole suggesting Cena was "fighting not to lose as opposed to fighting to win" was neat. I liked how he realised he'd have to take out both Rowan and Harper to win. The big crossbody and spear through the barricade were great. A handful of hot false finishes too.

 

A better finish and this would have been great. As it happens I thought it was still really good. Was more action packed than I had remembered and the crowd was super into it. Cena either sticking to his guns and coming up short or ultimately "crossing the line" in order to win would have been massive moments. You could argue he did the latter by taking Rowan out with the chair but really he beats Wyatt in much the same way as he's defeated so many of his other foes. Hopefully we will get one of those endings at the next PPV.

[C.S.]

I don't understand all the backlash (in general, I mean) for Bray losing to Cena. Bray, as compelling as the character is, simply isn't ready to beat someone like Cena. It's not logical or believable yet. When someone who isn't quite there yet wins a big match, the result and match are soon meaningless because the outcome doesn't have the desired effect - Booker T beating Scott Hall, Shelton Benjamin beating Triple H, etc. Yes, part of that is due to follow-up, but timing is everything, and it's not Bray's time yet.

[goodhelmet]

The Time Is NOW!!!

 

Anyway, last night on the podcast, we talked about the main event and how Trips and Steph helped get the crowd back into the match. The reality on replay is that pre-Authority, the match was only "dead" when Bryan was out of commission. When he was doing corner dropkicks and kicking heads off, the crowd was amped. When he would disappear for a few minutes, the crowd died especially when Batista was in control. Good luck turning that guy face anytime soon. Still, this was early in the match and didn't really hurt the match quality at all. Also, if Steph hurt her leg, it was her own fault. Bryan didn't even come close to touching her on the dive. Looking back, I wonder if this is the best Triple Threat match I have seen. WM XX is skewed because of the participants. This one has the ultimate payoff. I might like the ROH debut three way more in terms of execution and it was so exciting seeing those guys perform a nearly flawless exhibition match but it didn't have this atmosphere or stakes.

 

Also, it is so obvious how you get from last night to tonight. HHH forces Orton and Batista to co-exist as reluctant tag partners "for the good of the company". They beat the Usos for the belts keeping them out of the World Title picture and you have some great tag teams like the Shield, Rhodes and Usos to occupy their time while HHH looks for another wrestler to get the belt back because it is "best for business".

[jdw]

Thoughts...

 

Tag Title Match

 

Clusterfuck early with eight in there. Took forever to set up the early dives. But it got good as they settled down into working a match rather than just spotbu. Tricky finish since Cesaro was clearly over with the fans, while the belts are on faces as well. They thread that needle just about perfectly with keeping the belts on Usos while giving Claudio his spot at the end. Part of me wished they would have saved the "split up" to be a storyline in the Battle Royal, which usually need something mid-match as a hook. On the other hand, the way the battle royal played out, this primed the pump better for Claudio.

 

Opening 20 Minute Mic Spot

 

One gets the sense of Hulk aging, since even in the prime of Austin & Rock in the late 90s, Hulk could carry a long mic sequence on WCW that was a match to their work in the WWF. Here... he was the flatter one. Perhaps part of that was being the set up guy for a long segment, while Austin then Rock got to come out to carry it on. Still, while this wasn't close to peak Austin, he still picked up a segment that was kind of dragging. Rock was a bit more in form, closer to work as he had last year. All in all, not bad and certainly got the crowd going. Basically another match on the card from the time it ate up.

 

Two side notes:

 

They pretty much blew off the "Host Hogan" concept. This was it for the night for him, other than the backstage moment. That was kind of odd.

 

The absence of Vince at WM *30* felt... kind of... wrong... okay... a lot wrong. I get that in a sense it was Trip's night, which he in turn made Bryan's. But... this really needed a moment where Vince came out, even for 5 minutes, to thank the fans over the years... or something along those lines. Hall of Fame time would have been probably the right moment, or right before the Battle Royal. I wasn't the only one in the room thinking that: two of the other adults thought and said the same thing. Just odd not to have him there.

 

HHH vs Bryan

 

This was much better than any of us expected. Very good match. I could quibble with things, and probably would on a rematch. But it was a fitting WM co-main event spectacle, and there it was stuck down in the opener spot, delivering the right finish. If it were a one match card, that would have been perfectly fine as the one match that made the card.

 

Shield vs Old Age Outlaws & Kane

 

Eh. Squash. Don't care for the NAO or Kane, though the Shield never have done much for me. Glad this wasn't longer.

 

 

Battle Royal

 

Clusterfuck early with just way too many people. They eventually cleared enough of it out of the way for some decent spots, then cleared more out to get down to a useful final 6 or so before a decent final four. Show-Claudio was a good final two, and worked pretty decent together. I actually would have been fine with Show since it was Andre's memorial battle royal, and that's not a bad person to win it. But they actually booked it right, the fans dug Claudio winning, and Show put it over nicely.

 

This thing was pretty well booked through this point, the crowd was digging it in the Silverdome, and pretty much 6-0 in Casa del Hoback were digging it at this point. About as "right" of a feeling to the undercard of a Mania as any of us could recall.

 

 

Cena vs Wyatt

 

Alright... then things went off the rails. The room was just like the Super Dome: everyone thought this was awful. It's not like there was a lot of love for Cena in the room, but I have to say that Wyatt wasn't working for anyone. No one gave a shit about his clubbering or pretty much any of his offense. There was no real sense of drama coming off the match. The pretty regular comment was that they needed to be "brawling" or "kicking the hell out of each other", and that it "was too long" and "this needed to be a shorter war". It was just as flat as a turd on the front doorstep.

 

I don't really know who laid this one out, or who really thought it through. Someone thought it was a good idea to go with another long, slow epic on a night of longer, largely slower epics:

 

25:58 - HHH vs Bryan
22:25 - Cena vs Wyatt
25:12 - Undertaker vs Lesnar
23:20 - Orton vs Batista vs Bryan

 

Those are Caldwell's times since I haven't found others. They're pretty consistent with how the "felt" in terms of length.

 

Anyway, Cena-Wyatt frankly needed to be 8-10 minutes shorter, and just kicked the living shit out of each other all over the building up onto the stage and back. Something that even if Cena won, it was such an ass kicker of a violent match that people wanted to see them again.

 

After this, even if Wyatt won... who would have given a shit after that turd of a match. Ugh.

 

Undertaker vs Lesnar

 

This was a sad match. It felt like an old Pre-Austin Taker match, where the high point is the entrance, the crowd pops for that, and then zones out during the match because the match is shitty relative to Taker's entrance. We kept waiting for it to pick up with some stretch of spots. Even the methodical match with Trip, that frankly weren't heated non-stop from start to finish, did pick up business as they burned towards the finish. This... not really. It could have had 8 minutes chopped off. I don't think anyone would have felt ripped off if it was 17 minutes long, but if they also fought it more like a "war" from start to finish.

 

You had the old negative: no one expected Taker to lose. This isn't new, and has been going on for years since the Streak started getting pimped. Yet they were able to get Taker eventually into some peril / danger / damage where folks at least once in the match thought, "Oh shit... maybe?" And also popped when the match kept going when it looked like Taker would win. This... not really.

 

I've never been a big Taker Fan. I've respected him working hard for the past 5 or so Mania's when it's clear his body was a trainwreck of a mess. His opponents obviously have worked hard as well, but I really don't think it was Shawn who made those two matches against him (he frankly was annoying as shit), it certainly wasn't Trip in their two, and while Punk busted his ass it was Taker's goodwill with the fans that elevated up a match that they had zero doubt in the finish. Taker certainly carried his end of the work, and also brought the crowd for those matches. This year... neither.

 

On the flip side, it was a pretty pedestrian Brock.

 

Another match where folks in the company, along with the workers, should have planned things out better rather than trying to bite off more than they could chew at this point.

 

Oh wait... the Finish. Yeah, that was odd. I think most of us were like the fans in the building. Didn't expect it. Wildly surprised. I think the biggest reason is that it didn't seem built towards in the fashion you'd think Taker would go out. On a level, if he had been destroyed, got up, destroyed again, got up, destroyed again... you'd be prepped that maybe this was it. I'm thinking Hash-Choshu at the 1996 G1. Or in a WWF sense, Rock-Mick with all the annoying chair shots. You just felt that if the Streak was going down, Taker would be completely laid out by the end in a dramatic fashion. This wasn't that. It was strange. I think that's as much the reaction of the crowd: not that he lost, but that it hadn't quite been prepped.

 

Divas

 

What one would expect. Far from the worst Diva buffer match.

 

Orton vs Batista vs Bryan

 

This is one that I need to re-watch with James one of the next times I'm over there. Late on Mania day is always tough because of the length of the card and usually what's come on before. I wouldn't say we were burned out, but from the hot opening parts to the turd laying of Cena-Wyatt and the combo of mediocre match + odd finish of Taker-Brock to none of the six of us giving a crap about Orton and Big Dave anymore, there was a flat sense heading into this. I don't think any of really paid serious attention to the first half or so of this, instead still bouncing around what the Taker-Brock meant, and where the company would be booking Brock and Bryan heading forward. We focused more once they started working towards the finish, but that's a bit of a JIP vibe there. We of course enjoyed the finish, and enjoyed Bryan winning... though we were all worried about Big Dave jobbing rather than Orton for fear of more Bryan-Orton matches.

 

I'm guessing this is a better match if we'd actually paid more attention to the whole of it, and that something James and I can do down the road.

 

Overall

 

Odd. Quite a good start through the Battle Royal. Then just about the worst back-to-back Big Match pairing that I can recall at a Mania in the past decade. Less in terms of work (though that wasn't any great shakes), but more in terms of just laying there flat as hell capped by a finish that the crowd didn't at all want. They finished the PPV with one the fans did want, and it certainly got a good pop and the post match was well done. But the show ended up feeling like it had a donut hole.

 

A very fun day overall, though.

[Timbo Slice]

One thing that comes to mind right away, sadly, is that with Orton not getting pinned, he has the whole, "Well, I didn't want the triple threat and I didn't even get pinned to lose my belts!" thing going for him that almost necessitates a rematch. My hope is that they don't put it on a PPV and do it on RAW tonight.

[Death From Above]

With a day to digest, this was a really memorable Wrestlemania. I mean, I couldn't tell you half of what was on 29 a year later. I really doubt that will be true of this one.

[Bix]

I still like the "I don't want to watch WWE on my computer or mobile device! Just work out a deal with the cable companies" whine because obviously there is NO WAY to get the Network on your TV.

Just how much of this attitude is WWE needed to educate fans better vs fan stupidity? How can you read that site regularly enough to want to send an email feedback and not know the many ways to watch WWE Network on your TV?

They badly need to change the "announcers show off the app" network tutorial to Renee Young backstage at a TV pointing a remote and going through the UI. Even if it's more fan dumbness than anything, WWE needs to educate them.

[shoe]

 

 

I still like the "I don't want to watch WWE on my computer or mobile device! Just work out a deal with the cable companies" whine because obviously there is NO WAY to get the Network on your TV.

Just how much of this attitude is WWE needed to educate fans better vs fan stupidity? How can you read that site regularly enough to want to send an email feedback and not know the many ways to watch WWE Network on your TV?

 

They badly need to change the "announcers show off the app" network tutorial to Renee Young backstage at a TV pointing a remote and going through the UI. Even if it's more fan dumbness than anything, WWE needs to educate them.

 

I agree they just need to do infomercials on the website on what a Roku is and show someone using it etc. Until the network was announced I had no idea what a Roku was. If it wasn't for here I'd have no idea. I'm that 40 year old they need for this network to succeed. Once I got the Roku it was easy. If WWE could show how easy it is people my buy one of the other platforms and get it if you don't want to watch on your computer like me.

[Johnny Sorrow]

That was the best, most emotionally powerful Mania ever.

[Dylan Waco]

We waited all this time for you, and that's all you are giving us Sorrow? Come on!

[Robert S]

There are several possibilities for putting Lesnar over Undertaker:

- Taker has nothing left and he knows it, putting Lesnar over might be the only way to get rid of the streak without killing the other guy as Lesnar at least will get some heel heat for it, which probably wouldn't work for 95% WWE wrestlers.

- According to Meltzer Lesnar went from being a 40-1 underdog to the actual favorite in the last hour before the match, so several people with backstage knowledge made a killing.

- WWE just wanted to troll people and get the awesome crowdshots of astonished fans.

[tigerpride]

We waited all this time for you, and that's all you are giving us Sorrow? Come on!

 

Needs more f bombs

[Exposer]

I can see the arguments for people being pissed about Brock-Taker, and I can even agree with a lot of them. However, I think I liked the result mostly because it was the first truly unpredictable moment I've ever seen as a wrestling fan. For me, it was a good thing.

 

It's a shame Brock will be disappearing from television for months soon. That's likely the worst consequence.

[Johnny Sorrow]

We waited all this time for you, and that's all you are giving us Sorrow? Come on!

I'm honestly still getting my thoughts and feelings together. Last night I was a mess not fit for the airwaves.

 

I will say that it was nice that they basically turned AJ face and gave her her fiancee's gimmick, as punk rock rebel fighting an authority figure. That may be done since Vicki apparently left.

[Hollinger.]

I watched a couple matches again last night before RAW so I could see them sober and without a house full of people. Taker/Lesnar clearly falls apart after the single leg on the floor, and Taker is shaken up badly for a few minutes, and never does really clear up. There are a numbers of spots that he has to audibly ask Brock what's next, or that he blanks on completely. The Hell's Gate spot he totally misses, and Brock ends up looking like a doofus standing over him waiting for Taker to grab him. He was very definitely concussed, and I'm sure that hurt the match more than anything.

[Fantastic]

I watched a couple matches again last night before RAW so I could see them sober and without a house full of people. Taker/Lesnar clearly falls apart after the single leg on the floor, and Taker is shaken up badly for a few minutes, and never does really clear up. There are a numbers of spots that he has to audibly ask Brock what's next, or that he blanks on completely. The Hell's Gate spot he totally misses, and Brock ends up looking like a doofus standing over him waiting for Taker to grab him. He was very definitely concussed, and I'm sure that hurt the match more than anything.

 

It's a tough one, because we all know how dedicated Taker is (at least in recent years) to ensuring he has excellent matches. He rehearses the Wrestlemania matches for several weeks prior to the event at his home. Even though he should probably never set foot in the ring again, I feel as if he'll be tempted to redeem himself for the match going to shit because of his concussion. I guess if he plans to just do one more match and then call it quits, then that's OK, but he should never, absolutely, never, get back into the ring with Lesnar. Even working with less intensity than usual, Lesnar is still an incredibly physical performer that a guy of Taker's age and physical conditioning cannot hope to match.

 

Triple H barely got through three very physical matches with Lesnar. Cena was ripped to shreds in that Extreme Rules match, and Punk got through it because of his conditioning and the fact he isn't carrying as much weight as the others.

[JerryvonKramer]

I watched Wrestlemania -- had to do it in a few installments over the past two days -- but here are my thoughts unfettered from any and all reaction. I haven't read anything, don't know what the general feeling is. Personally, I thought this whole show was terrific and will probably go down as one of the all-time Wrestlemanias. However, it lacks that real ***** masterpiecce, which I think will prevent it from ever being in that conversation with GAB 89 etc. Only negative is that for the most part, the commentary sucked hard.

 

HHH vs. Bryan - great opener and perhaps the best HHH match ever. Really enjoyed the psychology. Bryan does injured underdog as well as anyone since Randy Savage. This was at least ****, probably more.

 

Shield vs. Kane and New Age Outlaws - "There goes the Attitude era". Best line of the night. And arguably the "thesis" of this event.

 

Andre Memorial Battle Royal - honestly one of the best Battle Royals I've ever seen. The Kofi Kingston save was fucking awesome. Sheamus beating the shit out of that dude on the apron was cool. Rey flippy flippying himself out of the match was cool. Finish was great. Not sure how it could have been better considering what it was.

 

Wyatt vs. Cena - I thought the psychology was very interesting here, perhaps "too clever" for the crowd or for its own good, but it was interesting. This was one match that really could have done with some BLOOD I thought. The visuals of Wyatt being covered in blood would have been a lot more effective in general. Still, not bad at all, and I thought Cena's performance was legit GREAT. At least a ***3/4 for me.

 

Undertaker vs. Lesnar - first things first, the look on faces of the crowd after the pinfall is hands down one of the most awesome things I've ever seen. Really, it was worth it just for that. The black guy in the YES t-shirt -- priceless. The open mouths -- priceless. The match was pretty solid I thought, if not spectacular. I marked for the tombstone. I think it told a very effective story: this was one match too far for the old man, he didn't have enough, he was struggling for the whole match. Very good. Not sure about a rating, maybe ***1/2, but I enjoyed it.

 

Divas thing - who was saying that cards don't need a bit of "down time"? Needed a trough here after what just happened.

 

Randy Orton vs. Batista vs. Daniel Bryan - "the old Garvin stomp", ha ha. Batista took a lot of big spots from Orton during this, and I was generally impressed by his performance. Still don't really like Orton as a performer, I've never believed or bought into his character -- just feels too inauthentic, like he's from a video game, but I tried to look past it. With Triple H and Steph coming out and the bent ref, they were ramping the underdog-against-the-odds-Rocky narrative up to about 16 out of 10 here. The double-teaming between Batista and Orton was cool too, Batista bomb into RKO on the announce table -- that's what I call a high spot. Stretcher job. Underdog narrative hitting 20 after that. As a match, I didn't really care for it too much, but as a piece of overall storytelling in terms of the booking, it was excellent and very effective. ***1/2 for the wrestling, but more than that for the angle, even if it was always obvious what was going to happen.

 

Very good event.

 

PS. HOLY SHIT, Paul Orndorff!!!!!!! With an awesome tache! Awesome awesome awesome. One of the best things ever.

 

PPS. Bruno, Harley, Bob, Dusty!! Yay! Our boys!

[El-P]

It took me forever to recognize Orndorff with that stache. I was like "Damn, this guy looks familair but…".

[flyonthewall2983]

Paul looked a lot better than I thought he would by now. I heard he'd been having health problems but I read a little interview with him this weekend where he said he was fine, weighing 195 lbs now.

[Sidebottom]

 

PPS. Bruno, Harley, Bob, Dusty!! Yay! Our boys!

 

Don't forget Bret, Jerry. Never forget Bret!