goc Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 I guess I just don't understand the mentality that a guy who came up from the indies is automatically more qualified to be a top guy in WWE than a guy who came up through WWE training. I don't see where John Cena & Roman Reigns are "inferior" to Sami Zayn or Kevin Owens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 It's more of a difference between guys who are immediately able to provide value on the main roster vs. guys who have to be taught from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Is Kevin Dunn far from retirement age ? He hates wrestling and would try and kill a work rate promotion . Dunn helped ruined the WCW Invasion program . The NXT project will always be in danger with VInce and Dunn still working in the company.. The they leave the company has a shot to improve. Until then I would not be shocked to see more indy guys released and more actors/ body builders and football players hired by the WWE. I hate to say but a lot of these indie wrestlers will be released in the next year ot two , if things hold to form. Vince just hates wrestling. I might be wrong , we shall see. WWE has been a workrate promotion for several years now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexstar Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 I was reading through this and goodhelmet asked towards the beginning: How are the contracts going to be structured for developmental talent who are in a touring company? When they start touring, will WWE pick up the tab for travel and rooms the same way the indys pick up the tab? Do developmental guys get a cut of merchandise (I really don't know)? At what point do guys like Zayn and Owens say "Fuck this" and start making more money in a happier environment outside of WWE? And there wasn't a definitive answer - I haven't seen one anywhere since that was asked, but maybe I missed it somewhere in someones news and it wasn't mentioned here? Does anyone know? Since they started doing house shows occasionally I've been watching for reports on how they were paid but haven't seen any. The fact they had a Samoa Joe t-shirt ready for that debut, and on-sale immediately after, makes me think there's at least a little potential for top NXT guys to make some extra coin through that avenue. Maybe it'll be a place where the Blake and Murphy's of the world take less money but a shot at the main roster and older indy guys take a steady paycheck but stay in NXT for the "exposure" and, in theory, less headache of booking their own stuff around the world/country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 It's not any kind of idea that somehow indy guys are any more qualified than home grown talent that I'm trying to put out there. I'm just looking at the tendency of the WWE booking and mindset when it comes to wrestlers in general. To be completely fair I think that the way NXT matches are structured is a big benefit to a lot of people who come in because it limits how much they are going to throw out there during finishing runs. There is something to be said for the less-is-more approach. One example I can think of to back up why I think the homegrown guys will always get an advantage is the Ascension. They were certainly over in NXT, but are you really going to tell me that they had developed to the point where they were better than Zayn, Neville, Breeze, Gabriel, most of the women or even a rejuvenated Tyson Kidd. At best they are the exact same thing you see on the midcard of Raw or Smackdown with the exception of Viktor's size. Generic power-based brawlers who are super intense. And they aren't even overly good at that. Part of the reason I think the WWE was so high on them was because they were the exact same act they have been trying to push for years with a pretty low success ratio. The flip side of that argument is that they fit into the WWE roster far better because of their almost cookie cutter nature than any of the other talent at NXT. How does somebody like Itami or Breeze fit into the current WWE climate? What is the likelihood that they become jokes the instant they hit SD and end up shuffled off to Main Event and endless jobs on SD? Which really brings into sharper focus the real question. What is the WWE trying to accomplish with NXT? It's possible that it has changed enough that they aren't quite sure themselves anymore. Which brings us to the question of contracts. Eventually these main event guys on NXT are going to get unhappy and want a piece of the pie. When that happens does Vince start paying them more like main show guys? Does he find a different way of structuring the contracts even if they don't tour? Because with the rate they call guys up to the main roster it's hard to see a lot of people they have now sticking around at the developmental contract rate until their call. Maybe they give main event guys/gals on NXT midcarder salaries. Give the young kids working in the PC something to look forward to. I tend to think they have some kind of plan for when the rumblings get too loud. They have to know that the NXT roster as it is now is not exactly what they had in mind when they started it up. The changes they've made to the show suggest that. So if NXT is to be it's own brand in addition to the training ground for the future, there has to be some plan going forward. I can't imagine they are going to pay them main event money and I would guess the contracts would be shorter with less guarantees. They are always going to treat it like the WWE "made" whoever it is they call up and it's a lot easier to do that when one of the things that comes from a jump to the main roster is a nice pay bump with more stability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 I think people are looking at the call-ups in the wrong way. I don't think they are calling up guys based on the idea that whoever is getting called up is the best NXT has to offer. It's more of a "we have this spot open and this guy would fill it well" type of thing. I don't think anyone who is making those decisions thinks that Adam Rose is a better performer than Sami Zayn but they had an opening for "goofy midcard act" and called up Rose. Kind of like a "Hey Santino is done, do we have anyone we think could fill that role?" type of thing. I don't think any Zayn fans would really want to see him called up just to become the new Santino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 That's a fair point for sure, but how do you think the wrestlers in NXT are going to look at it? I wonder how long it will be until some of the bigger names start chomping at the bit. They all know the real money is in the WWE even if they get less chances to shine. Most wrestlers, if they come to the WWE, are looking for the payday way more than they are looking to be the next Hogan, Austin or Cena. You can't tell me somebody like Neville or Zayn truly thinks they are going to be a guy on that level. They have to be smart enough to know that they don't fit that mold and the best they can expect is that "B+ Player" spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 I think there are things about the indy guys going to NXT that we just don't know. We have no idea what they are getting paid or what they are being told when they are signed. A guy like Kevin Steen has to know he doesn't have the "WWE look" and so for him to sign AND agree to sit in NXT for X amount of time there has to be more to the story than what we know. One thing I am sure of is that Zayn & Owens are getting paid on a different scale from guys like Baron Corbin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 I feel like now we are getting down to the two big questions asked in this thread. 1. What is NXT supposed to be? and 2. What kind of contracts are these big indy names getting when they sign on to NXT? To the first question I think it is a way for the WWE to steal the thunder of the indies and get those fans who have gotten used to watching people like Zayn, Owens, etc. to watch the WWE. This is in addition to what it was originally supposed to be as a training ground for future WWE guys. If they did add touring I can only imagine it would be a limited schedule that allowed their big names the time to get back to FSU in time for the tapings. As to the second, I can't imagine they are getting main show money despite getting more than the raw guys who need to be trained from scratch. Before there were house shows it had to be less due to less benefit to the company. I also have a hard time believing that there is any kind of clause that says there are X amount of days you will spend in NXT before going to the main roster. To your point earlier, what if there are no openings that fit Owens when his NXT time is up? I would agree that there has to be enough money for the big name indy guys to draw them there because they have to know they aren't going to be the big star. They may get to main event NXT, but once they get to the main shows they are very likely stuck in that midcard cycle. And you know most of these guys are smart enough to realize that. So there has to be some contractual incentive for them to sign. But I still think it's less than somebody like Dolph Ziggler gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Owens is heading to the main roster and is advertised going forward with house show matches against Cena. It looks like HHH really does see something in guys like him and Zayn and they weren't just getting pushed to give NXT indy cred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Finn winning the belt in Tokyo would be nice, but the big draw has to be Joe/Owens, right? Even with Owens running with the main roster, can't see him dropping the belt jussst yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Owens is heading to the main roster and is advertised going forward with house show matches against Cena. It looks like HHH really does see something in guys like him and Zayn and they weren't just getting pushed to give NXT indy cred. Just saw a promo for Cena vs Owens for my local house show in July actually. Massively excited for that. Joe/Owens works as a match with or without the title. With Joe being such a big name coming in from outside you can run him in dream match type bouts for the time being, before he settles into chasing the title. I don't personally see Balor as "ready" to be the champ, but him winning the belt in Japan on a big special is appealing, and if Owens is moving up he'll have to drop the belt sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I'd rather they not beat him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Everyone jobs their way out of NXT. Bo Dallas, the Ascension, Neville, Lucha Dragons. It's a separate entity that I'm not sure even gets acknowledged on Raw/SD so it doesn't matter. It also keeps the big names moving up that stay at NXT rather than having to build them up from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I think people are looking at the call-ups in the wrong way. I don't think they are calling up guys based on the idea that whoever is getting called up is the best NXT has to offer. It's more of a "we have this spot open and this guy would fill it well" type of thing. Which is sort of ironic - when you consider there's a big banner hanging on the wall at the developmental center that says, "You're not here to FILL a spot. You're here to TAKE a spot." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Everyone jobs their way out of NXT. Bo Dallas, the Ascension, Neville, Lucha Dragons. It's a separate entity that I'm not sure even gets acknowledged on Raw/SD so it doesn't matter. It also keeps the big names moving up that stay at NXT rather than having to build them up from scratch. I think Owens is a different case, especially compared to all of those others that are all comedy/prelim characters. He has also paraded the belt around on all of the shows he has been on. Just strip it from him for something and have a tournament. The fanbase of NXT would love a tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Imagine a 32 man tournament where they can bring in guys from outside to job like Kendrick etc. It could be wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Everyone jobs their way out of NXT. Bo Dallas, the Ascension, Neville, Lucha Dragons. It's a separate entity that I'm not sure even gets acknowledged on Raw/SD so it doesn't matter. It also keeps the big names moving up that stay at NXT rather than having to build them up from scratch. I think Owens is a different case, especially compared to all of those others that are all comedy/prelim characters. He has also paraded the belt around on all of the shows he has been on. Just strip it from him for something and have a tournament. The fanbase of NXT would love a tournament. They have already booked Owens opposite NXT officials like Regal in storyline so they can very easily write him out of the show via suspension or termination only to have the evil Authority sign him to a main roster contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 How did they write Rusev out of NXT? Did he lose on the way out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I could be wrong, but I don't remember Rusev losing. I remember him squashing Breeze and someone else on the first NXT Takeover special, and then he was on the main roster. As for vacating the title and running a tournament, Vince doesn't like tournaments and WWE has never handled them well. Even the recent NXT tournament was nothing special. There's an easy way for Kevin Owens to lose the title without also losing his credibility. Cena makes a special appearance on NXT, costs Owens the belt, does the "you can't see me" hand motion, and gets booed out of the building. But even that isn't necessary. A straight-up loss to Samoa Joe wouldn't hurt him one bit. Truthfully though, I don't know if I want Joe (or Balor) to be the next champion. Zayn regaining the title would've been perfect, but I'm guessing he's too injured for that. There are no other major babyfaces I can think of, and perish the thought of a stiff like Baron Corbin getting it, but I could see that happening. :\ I'd love a Tyler Breeze reign, but not at the expense of Owens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 He did a run-in on Breeze and Xavier Woods and destroyed them both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I forgot about Rusev. He didn't lose until the completely pointless loss to Cena. Are there some parallels there? Big guys who can work credibly against main roster talent coming up as undefeated heels. Maybe Owens is another exception to the rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Skinner Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Any idea on when Uhaa Nation is debuting on TV? Next set of tapings maybe or do they hold off longer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Rusev lost to Ziggler back on NXT TV August 2013. If I remember, he just left NXT without any big writeoff. I'm guess Uhaa will debut on the 18th. They really need him with all the injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 http://www.wwe.com/shows/wwenxt/wwe-nxt-louder-than-life-festival-louisville-27514575 So, NXT is part of this music festival in town. Would love to see an NXT show, but not with that lineup of bands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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