The Young Bucks - a discussion

[FMKK]

It's not about "Real." It's about allowing for the suspension of disbelief and utilizing the conventions of the genre to tell a story instead of just tearing them all apart for a cheap shortcut that over time renders them ultimately meaningless?

This

[ShittyLittleBoots]

To everybody on this thread I give highest recommendations to Bryan Danielson & Roderick Strong vs. The Bucks from PWG DDT4 2009. Very unlike everything The Bucks have done since. They take a hellacious beating in that match, and sell wonderfully. It's one of my favorite tag matches of all-time, and quite possibly my favorite one of the 2000 - 2009 decade.

[El-P]

Yeah, the fact that a shitty dropkick spot is causing Twitter drama is sad.

 

This.

 

And Twitter drama is always sad, basically.

 

The only goal of pro-wrestling is selling tickets & merch. The Bucks do that without the WWE machine. More power to them, whether I care or not about their act. The rest is basically bullshit.

[Loss]

With the caveat that I might have missed some context, it looked to me like pride took over for a moment and everyone wanted to be the first one to hit a dropkick.

[Flyin' Brian]

I'm not sure "looks fake" and "embarrassing to non-fans" are terribly useful standards. If we're really being honest, much of the territory wrestling a lot of us love is just as goofy and fake-looking to a non-fan, if not more so.

Selling moves that don't even make contact is rough though. I understand botches happen, but when the whole point is for everything to be 'off', I don't understand it. I've seen some nice reversal and dodging and blocking exchanges, but this isn't it. I'm not talking about anything from a non-fan standpoint, I'm just talking about me. It just looks sloppy.

[Rah]

The exotico's beso

Flair's flop

The Johnny Saint Special

 

Wrestling has been treated as "stupid" for ages.

[MoS]

For what it is worth, the spot has gone viral. Indian comedy pages which have never posted memes about wrestling before with the exception of the huge stars like Cena, Austin, etc have made memes about that spot.

 

That is not going to earn them any money per se, but it is certainly...something, I guess, even though it is the kind of wrestling I hate. The are certainly gaining notoriety and leverage, so good for them.

[El-P]

They have their own thread at PWO. They won.

[Cap]

I have a lot of time for the bucks, but at the same time a lot of what they are doing now isn't really for me. It isn't that I don't enjoy them, it just doesn't resonate (as seems to be the case for a lot of people). What is more important to me is that they have so clearly proven themselves as talented and deceptively diverse wrestlers. Look at the recommendations in this thread. They have high highs. They are extremely skilled and can wrestle in more or less whatever way you want to. They have, however, found their niche and they have exploited it in a really savvy way. Good for them. They have a better grip on the future of mainstream wrestling (like it or not) than probably anyone else in the business right now. That isn't to say everything will look like that eventually, but in terms of how one builds buzz, creates identities, reaches fans, and makes themselves a crucial piece of the wrestling landscape... they get it.

 

Long story short, they aren't where I spend much of my merch money or what I spend a ton of my time watching right now, but I am really glad they are part of wrestling. I think they are a net positive and I find most of their most vocal detractors (particularly on twitter) to sound bitter and/or like they are just trying to get themselves over on line.

[Coffey]

They have their own thread at PWO. They won.

 

So does David Flair...

[zep81]

I'm not a big follower of PWG over the years, but their 'Five Stars' DVD set is filled with matches that I thougholy enjoy and it' one of my favourite wrestling sets. Just pure entertainment that puts a smile on my face.

[Childs]

To everybody on this thread I give highest recommendations to Bryan Danielson & Roderick Strong vs. The Bucks from PWG DDT4 2009. Very unlike everything The Bucks have done since. They take a hellacious beating in that match, and sell wonderfully. It's one of my favorite tag matches of all-time, and quite possibly my favorite one of the 2000 - 2009 decade.

I was going to mention that one to go with Phil's recs. They really do have some killer highs for a team that generally doesn't interest me. I guess if there's any frustration, it's that they could be really great if they cut back on the wink-wink shit. But they're doing great without my approval so more power to them.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

 

To everybody on this thread I give highest recommendations to Bryan Danielson & Roderick Strong vs. The Bucks from PWG DDT4 2009. Very unlike everything The Bucks have done since. They take a hellacious beating in that match, and sell wonderfully. It's one of my favorite tag matches of all-time, and quite possibly my favorite one of the 2000 - 2009 decade.

I was going to mention that one to go with Phils recs. They really do have some killer highs for a team that generally doesnt interest me. I guess if theres any frustration, its that they could be really great if they cut back on the wink-wink shit. But theyre doing great without my approval so more power to them.

They just have so much terrific stuff in PWG that I will forever be a fan. I feel the same re: the meta stuff (really just since they joined Bullet Club), but I hope it ends up just being a temporary thing and they can get back to more serious stuff in PWG eventually.

[G. Badger]

I'm not a big follower of PWG over the years, but their 'Five Stars' DVD set is filled with matches that I thougholy enjoy and it' one of my favourite wrestling sets. Just pure entertainment that puts a smile on my face.

Yes to this. I hated them with a passion in 2010 but, in 2017 I bought this shit. Like I said earlier, they are best in PWG. Its almost like ROH, NJ etc. are second to PWG. Its like they portray those promotions as jobs but, PWG is the real thing Although wackiness occurs there too but, they're like big fish in a little pond and come across as villains more often.

[Jmare007]

 

 

 

What is the spot that has gotten so much talk lately? I've seen all of this referring to "the spot" on Twitter ... what was it?

https://twitter.com/briantheguppie/status/942054673451835392

Thanks. I was expecting something worse. I mean, it's not my preferred form of wrestling, but Japanese indy sleaze feds have been doing stuff like this for a long time. I don't see how people like things like grocery store death matches, Minoru Suzuki vs MECHA Mummy, and Saitama Pro, but don't like this. It's not too far of a reach. Is it really that different than a criss-cross sequence where the babyface simply steps out of it and the heel runs without realizing the babyface is no longer there? Or the back-turned arm wringer spot?

If I had to guess, the people that like or don't mind Japanese indy sleaze/fuckery/comedy don't have much of an issue with The Young Bucks.

[Mad Dog]

I still say a competent camera crew and production team could have made it look better. I'm not saying they could have saved that spot but they used the worst possible shots.

[Laz]

I'd say that's accurate. I'm on the "Bucks + PWG = all the yes" bandwagon myself, but I also don't care much for DDT or similar companies (except Hoodslam because Hoodslam). Their shtick rarely causes trouble with the products I like because they're either not booked or modify it to fit the company style.

 

Slight diversion here, but anybody else think it's downright hypocritical for a guy like Corny to cry about how much he hates talent that doesn't listen to the booker...but then wishes death on Kenny Omega for working a little girl (thus doing as he's booked)?

[Mad Dog]

There's kind of a lot of stuff Cornette says and does that's hypocritical.

[EricR]

I agree most with Phil's statement that their highs can be really high, and stuff I think might be a low I just have no problem skipping. We've had a few Bucks matches finish really high on our MOTY lists, namely that Hardy Boys match which is actually my favorite tag team match of the decade. All the matches that have landed high on our lists:

 

vs. Hardy Boys (NEW 8/2/14)

 

vs. Angelico/Jack Evans (PWG 7/24/15)

 

vs. Cobb/Riddle (PWG 12/16/16)

 

I also think they're annoying wink-wink act works best in non "hip" indies. Stick themselves in front of some honest to god wrestling fans who hate heels and they turn into great John Tatum pretty boy shitheads. The vibe totally changes when fans are in on the joke.

[C.S.]

There's no questioning Cornette's hypocrisy, but I do think Kenny Omega had to have some leeway about working with a little girl.

[Sean Liska]

This thread has taught me that I haven't watched enough of the good Bucks stuff and I've seen too much of the "wink wink" talk into the camera about star ratings stuff.

[gordi]

 

 

 

What is the spot that has gotten so much talk lately? I've seen all of this referring to "the spot" on Twitter ... what was it?

https://twitter.com/briantheguppie/status/942054673451835392

Thanks. I was expecting something worse. I mean, it's not my preferred form of wrestling, but Japanese indy sleaze feds have been doing stuff like this for a long time. I don't see how people like things like grocery store death matches, Minoru Suzuki vs MECHA Mummy, and Saitama Pro, but don't like this. It's not too far of a reach. Is it really that different than a criss-cross sequence where the babyface simply steps out of it and the heel runs without realizing the babyface is no longer there? Or the back-turned arm wringer spot?

If I had to guess, the people that like or don't mind Japanese indy sleaze/fuckery/comedy don't have much of an issue with The Young Bucks.

Not necessarily. There are, maybe, seven people who love Osaka Pro more than me, but the Young Bucks are not at all my cup of tea. I don't hate them. Just not into them.

 

Like everyone else here, my basic take is: more power to them for finding a way to succeed, but it's just not something I'm going to go out of my way to watch.

 

I don't get the perception that they are widely hated. Pretty much the worst I have ever seen is more or less what I just wrote above. That might be because I stay away from other pro wrestling websites and from Twitter in general.

[dawho5]

I think it's just the culture in general. If somebody thinks differently they have to be wrong. Therefore an argument like this has to be about sides and not personal preferences.

[gordi]

I think it's just the culture in general. If somebody thinks differently they have to be wrong. Therefore an argument like this has to be about sides and not personal preferences.

 

Yep... which is why i stay away from Twitter and many other wrestling web sites, and comment sections, and...

 

I enjoy having a discussion. Don't much care for side-taking and angry yelling, in general.

[Edwin]

Grown men watch this Santa Clause edition.