Dave Meltzer stuff

[C.S.]

In Dynamite's book, I remember him excusing away his lack of revenge as not being around because of injuries. Supposedly, Dynamite was planning something during a match that got cancelled or never happened for some reason. Survivor Series maybe?

[SPS]

In Dynamite's book, I remember him excusing away his lack of revenge as not being around because of injuries. Supposedly, Dynamite was planning something during a match that got cancelled or never happened for some reason. Survivor Series maybe?

 

You're conflating 2 different stories, the revenge Dynamite was planning in a match that never happened was talking about Brutus Beefcake who disrespected Dynamite's trainer Ted Betley in the locker room when he was over visiting Tom in the WWF and was getting autographs from all the boys with Andre even signing politely for him. Dynamite found out and was gonna get his revenge in a tag cage match he said he was booked for against Beefcake but he suffered his back injury in Ontario a short time prior and never got to the match.

 

As for the Rougeau story the deal was that Vince basically told Dynamite if he did anything to retaliate for the sucker punch then he would withhold his PPV and Merch royalties that Dynamite had coming and also told Tom that The Rougeaus gave their Mobster friends Tom's home address if anything were to happen to them. So Dynamite basically swallowed it but brooded and even worked with them in the Survivor Series doing a few spots in The Bulldogs last WWF match.

[The Thread Killer]

In Dynamite's book, I remember him excusing away his lack of revenge as not being around because of injuries. Supposedly, Dynamite was planning something during a match that got cancelled or never happened for some reason. Survivor Series maybe?

 

Close, but you're confusing two of his (many) backstage feuds. He was trained in England by a guy named Ted Bentley. After Dynamite made it big, he brought his trainer backstage and introduced him around to all the boys. Apparently, everybody in the locker room was very nice and accommodating (DK makes specific mention of Andre being nice, IIRC) with the exception of one Brutus Beefcake, who was rude, refused to give an autograph and blew Mr. Bentley off. Dynamite knew that he and Davey Boy had a cage match against The Dream Team coming up, and he was apparently planning on exacting terrible revenge in the cage, but before that could happen he suffered the back injury that pretty much ruined his career, in a match against Orton and Muraco.

 

With Jacques, DK claimed that Vince asked him not to retaliate out of fear of the Rougeau's "making a phone call." Billington claims he agreed under the condition that the Rougeau's paid for the dental work he needed to fix his teeth. Raymond agreed, so the beef was supposedly squashed at that point, and after that the two teams were kept far, far away from each other. In his book, he makes it sound like the Bulldogs left the WWF not that long afterward, but I'm not sure how true that is. I know the Iron Sheik (I know, I know) claimed in one of his many shoots that after Jacques knocked out Dynamite's teeth, he lost a lot of the shine on his reputation as a tough guy in the locker room, which bothered him tremendously. I remember a lot of other wrestlers saying he was never the same again after that, because he had been such a bully, but Jacques knocked his teeth out and he never retaliated, so it really bothered him and drove him nuts.

[The Thread Killer]

Apparently SPS and I answered the same post at the same time. I never heard that the mob actually had Billington's address. Creepy.

[C.S.]

Thanks for the detailed insights, guys.

 

Is this how Jacques Rougeau was able to cleanly defeat Hogan in Montreal?

[The Thread Killer]

 

If I am not mistaken, in his 2004 RF Video shoot, Jacques pretty much admits it.

 

Yep.

 

Really, the whole Montreal crew story is fascinating and remains a story to be told (not sure the Pat Laprade book talks about this part of the story, I haven't read it).

 

 

An 8 Part mini-series called "Bad Blood" about the Montreal Mafia recently aired here, starring Anthony LaPaglia and Paul Sorvino. It was interesting and I really liked it. It didn't touch any of the wrestling stuff, but it did get into just how much the mafia had their fingers in a ton of pies in Quebec. I should check out that book, assuming it's in English. My French is so bad it would take me about a year to read it, otherwise.

[SirEdger]

 

If I am not mistaken, in his 2004 RF Video shoot, Jacques pretty much admits it.

 

Yep.

 

Really, the whole Montreal crew story is fascinating and remains a story to be told (not sure the Pat Laprade book talks about this part of the story, I haven't read it).

 

 

No, I have both versions of the book - French and English - and what El-P brought up hasn't been mentioned. The story of Jacques knocking out Dynamite Kid is documented in detail but there's no insinuations about mafia ties and such. Perhaps Pat chose to leave that part of the story out of the book or he simply wasn't told about it.

[C.S.]

I think it's a shame that all of this great Rougeau mob talk is going to end up getting buried in this thread. Is there a way to spin it off into its own thread and migrate the posts over there?

[SPS]

I was browsing some of Scott Keith's Blog of Doom where he reviews old issues of The Observer and came across this tidbit regarding The Bulldogs/Rougeau issue,

 

"

• The Bulldogs and Rougeaus got into a big backstage fight over an incident where Jacques shaved the head of a friend of the Bulldogs, which Dave finds ironic since the Bulldogs did that kind of shit all the time (most notably to Joey Marella and Outback Jack). However, their friend was a ring attendant with Down’s Syndrome, so that’s pretty uncool of the Rougeaus. This led to Dynamite Kid cleaning Raymond’s clock, and of course things would escalate between them VERY quickly."

I'd never heard this so does anyone else have any info? it's from the 10.12.88 issue.

[ragemaster]

From vague memory, I think the Rougeaus asked Curt Hennig to watch there stuff when they were in a match.

But Curt cut up some of there clothes and then blamed the bulldogs when the Rougeaus got back to the dressing room.

 

At this time the Bulldogs were pulling a lot of "pranks"

 

The Rougeaus bad mouthed the bulldogs and this got back to Dynamite, Maybe though Curt.

But it also may have been Bret Hart who told Dynamite about it.

 

This set off Dynamite, who went into the locker room and just started to beat the shit out of Jacques.

​When his brother told Dynamite he's had enough, Dynamite knocked him out as well.

 

​The down's syndrome sounds like bullshit and a story put out to justify Dynamites behaviour.

[ragemaster]

Raymond Rougeau on Dynamite Kid Fight!

 

[El-P]

With all the previous talk, I rewatch that interview (which is great BTW) in a whole new different light. With his kinda husky voice and self-confidence, Ray sounds like a regular goodfella here.

 

"You think I'm funny Dyno ? How am I funny ? Is it the way I talk, is it my French accent ? Is that funny ? What is so funny about me ?"

[PhilTLL]

The down's syndrome sounds like bullshit and a story put out to justify Dynamites behaviour.

Plus, I'm supposed to believe DK was kind and protective towards a disabled kid, rather than the complete opposite? Sure.

[Victator]

I don't believe the story, but Dynamite could be protective of some people. There is the story of him wanting to hurt Brutus for insulting his trainer and he did seem to care for Benoit (for whatever that is worth.).

[The Thread Killer]

 

I was browsing some of Scott Keith's Blog of Doom where he reviews old issues of The Observer and came across this tidbit regarding The Bulldogs/Rougeau issue,

 

"

• The Bulldogs and Rougeaus got into a big backstage fight over an incident where Jacques shaved the head of a friend of the Bulldogs, which Dave finds ironic since the Bulldogs did that kind of shit all the time (most notably to Joey Marella and Outback Jack). However, their friend was a ring attendant with Down’s Syndrome, so that’s pretty uncool of the Rougeaus. This led to Dynamite Kid cleaning Raymond’s clock, and of course things would escalate between them VERY quickly."

I'd never heard this so does anyone else have any info? it's from the 10.12.88 issue.

 

 

I have no proof of this of course, so it's pure speculation on my part, but I'd tend to call bullshit on that story.

 

From everything I have ever read or heard, Raymond was the Rougeau Brother that you did not want to fuck with. I am 99.9% sure I remember hearing that Raymond actually had some amateur boxing experience as well. Even if Dynamite Kid and Raymond got into a fight, I don't think DK would have "cleaned Raymond's clock." I think Jacques was the one with the big mouth who was more liable to get negative attention from the other wrestlers. Not to mention as Phil pointed out, the Bulldogs were the ones who were universally known for shaving people's heads and eyebrows and stealing and destroying their property and clothes.

 

Sounds fishy to me. Considering all the time that has passed, you would have figured that story would have come out by now if it was true, like most locker room fight stories tend to. (Dick the Bruiser vs. Brody, Spivey vs. Adonis, etc.) Not to mention, I am sure DK would have gladly crowed about it in his book, since he had no issues burying the Rougeaus or talking about what a big badass he was. If it had happened, that is where he would have talked about it.

[SirEdger]

Ray's interview posted by ragemaster is exactly what was written in Pat Laprade's book in regards to that incident, with additional details from Raymond.

[sek69]

So getting back to WON related issues, looks like their web host decided to take a dump on the second biggest day of activity they have.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

But I need Dave to tell me how bad booking is actually good booking if it happens in Japan. . Standards change.

[Richeyedwards]

Bad booking in America is good booking in japan, just as a **** match in the us is a *** in Japan or whatever it was he said.

[Loss]

To be fair, I do think there's a difference between the hierarchy-related win-loss decisions that are more common in Japanese booking and upper midcarders getting jobbed out to John Cena. I'd love multi-year chases in American booking, but I don't think the writers have the focus and I don't think the fans have the attention span or patience. But in general, American booking could do much better at getting over long-term programs and Japanese booking could do much better at striking while the iron is hot. (I realize that's not what you're even talking about. This just seemed like a good place to drop that thought.)

[FMKK]

Although if WWE does put Reigns over Lesnar for the title at Mania thats the culmination of three or arguably even four years of long-term storyline build

[Matt D]

Although if WWE does put Reigns over Lesnar for the title at Mania thats the culmination of three or arguably even four years of long-term storyline build

 

"Build" is the wrong word. I'd use "Sputter" or maybe...

 

http://www.celebrateboston.com/strange/cow-paths.htm

[hammerva]

Although if WWE does put Reigns over Lesnar for the title at Mania thats the culmination of three or arguably even four years of long-term storyline build

 

Yeah I think assuming that the Triple H and Taker matches were done to put over the Lesnar match this year is a bit of a stretch.

 

Dave agrees that Naito should have won but if the idea is to create Okada like a legendary New Japan wrestler in the grounds of Muta or Inoki, then I guess winning makes sense. In the current WWE world a legend is considered by the number of times he held the belt not the reign. Okada winning the IWGP title 10 times probably would look bad in their eyes.

[FMKK]

I think its pretty clear that they put Reigns over Taker last time around with the intention of setting him up for Brock this year. The finish of Summerslam was a callback to that 2015 Mania match too

[Coffey]

That feels backward though. Reigns would have gotten a lot more from being the first person to beat The Undertaker at Wrestlemania than doing it after Brock did it first. The end game should have been The Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak, not beating Brock after Brock beat the Streak. Brock has lost, up until the Streak ended, The Undertaker at Wrestlemania had not. It just feels weird.

 

Instead of having UT retire with the Streak in-tact, or using that big win on someone that'll be around for a long-time, they gave it to Brock which just seems weird to, even still a few years later.

 

Not that the fans would have accepted Roman winning it though. WWE was kind of damned if they do, damned if they don't... which maybe that's why they gave it to Brock, just to "get it over with." But at that point, it should have just remained unbroken.