ragemaster Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 Another solid Bring It To The Table. Some of the more notable comments/moments for me were: - JBL compared Bayley's recent "fall from grace" to Glenn Jacobs misfiring as Isaac Yankem and Fake Diesel before finally hitting it big as Kane. That seemed really out of touch to me, because Bayley was over like gangbusters in NXT. He also said that what may work in one place may not work in another. If NXT acts don't work in WWE, what is the fucking point of NXT? All of that "THIS IS AWESOME!!!" bullshit they do over there is absolutely meaningless if it doesn't translate to the main roster. - When "...dive" came up, Peter Rosenberg said that Randy Orton "doesn't always leave it all in the ring." WTF? While I'm not disagreeing, who the hell is he to say that? Rosenberg tried to claim that Triple H implied it once, which may be so, but I don't remember that. Wouldn't surprise me if this becomes an issue shortly between Rosenberg and the hotheaded Orton. I'd be pissed if I were Randy. - In the same segment, Graves defended the high-flying style of people like Will Ospraey and Richochet and the "evolution" of the business while admitting that Buddy Rogers bores him...wow. JBL, as you'd expect, took the opposite stance. - JBL buried Kevin Owens by saying the Universal Title didn't have credibility until Brock won it because Finn got injured and then the title played hot potato from KO to Goldberg (even though KO held the title for months). Poor KO. - Dean Ambrose was also buried - by Graves, who said nothing interesting happened when Dean was I-C Champ. True, but damn! Is that Ambrose's fault or the writers' though? Ambrose seemed super-unmotivated for sure, but he wasn't exactly given much to work with either. HHH said “You talk about like a Randy Orton, and I’ve told Randy this since the day I met him, he had every tool to succeed. The only guy who was gonna stop Randy was Randy, because he can be a little bit of a self-destructor. He has everything it takes, and I don’t know if that’s because he’s just gifted, or if it’s because he watched his dad for so long — I don’t know what it is. I still think that Randy doesn’t take advantage of all the tools that he has, I think he just does what he needs to do. I believe he can take it to another level if he wanted to. He’s just that good. I don’t know if that’s just me believing in him more than he believes in him. Don’t get me wrong, he’s great. I just wonder how great he could be.” Not sure why Rosenberg can't say what he says, that's the point of the show. Rosenberg is speaking for the fan/marks, then JBL can tell him why he and the fan/marks are wrong and they don't know what the hell they talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 I agreed with both JBL and Corey about the dive shit. Both had pretty valid points, although JBL's insistence on AJ/Cena being an example of tearing the house down without doing moves and moves and moves was pretty lol. The AJ/Cena series was another in a line of Cena doing indie spot stuff and getting praised for it, which made sense in their first meeting as the story was Cena proving he could keep up with and do whatever AJ could, as opposed to the follow ups which were just the Cena PWG formula with AJ, which elevated it a bit because it's AJ. In the end, JBL and Graves both agreed that Ricochet vs Ospreay was great, so the whole argument kind of seemed pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 I agreed with JBL on that point. Some things that get so over in NXT just aren't going to work on the main roster or connect with a much larger audience. Most NXT acts probably will work fine but there will surely be a few like that which end up being flops. The difference is something like Bayley should never have ended up in the "only worked in NXT" bucket. She has been so badly misused on the main roster it's nearly criminal. They absolutely suck at getting babyfaces over on the main roster to the point they reconned the Daniel Bryan era to say that it was all their plan from the start. Now they think that constantly beating babyfaces gets people behind them so you have Bayley and Sami Zayn going from huge babyfaces in NXT to geeks in WWE. But I suppose the blame will be placed on the acts themselves for "just not being able to translate". Exactly. Adam Rose, sure. Bayley, no way. How do you screw up the best babyface you've had in years? By WWE being WWE, that's how. HHH said “You talk about like a Randy Orton, and I’ve told Randy this since the day I met him, he had every tool to succeed. The only guy who was gonna stop Randy was Randy, because he can be a little bit of a self-destructor. He has everything it takes, and I don’t know if that’s because he’s just gifted, or if it’s because he watched his dad for so long — I don’t know what it is. I still think that Randy doesn’t take advantage of all the tools that he has, I think he just does what he needs to do. I believe he can take it to another level if he wanted to. He’s just that good. I don’t know if that’s just me believing in him more than he believes in him. Don’t get me wrong, he’s great. I just wonder how great he could be.” Not sure why Rosenberg can't say what he says, that's the point of the show. Rosenberg is speaking for the fan/marks, then JBL can tell him why he and the fan/marks are wrong and they don't know what the hell they talking about. Thanks for the HHH quote. Now that you've posted it, I think I remember it from the Orton DVD. I realize what Rosenberg's role is, and he can say whatever he wants, but it felt strange to me - even though I do agree. If he really wanted to "speak for the fans," he would've said that Orton was in the WWE ecosystem from day one and has never had to get over outside those protected confines. That's also an accurate statement (even though I agreed with a lot of what Orton said during the "...dive" tweets). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 It'd be great if they finished it off. I believe the recent drop stopped at sometime late in '89. Ive not checked the network out in a while because Firefox just takes ages and ages to load the video up but any ideas what years they've covered so far? I know they first started with 1986 so was curious if 87, 88 & 89 all turned up. They're up to July of '89. I think they finished up with the episodes that have the Bobby Heenan Show as a piece of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 The difference is something like Bayley should never have ended up in the "only worked in NXT" bucket. She has been so badly misused on the main roster it's nearly criminal. They absolutely suck at getting babyfaces over on the main roster to the point they reconned the Daniel Bryan era to say that it was all their plan from the start. Now they think that constantly beating babyfaces gets people behind them so you have Bayley and Sami Zayn going from huge babyfaces in NXT to geeks in WWE. But I suppose the blame will be placed on the acts themselves for "just not being able to translate". Exactly. Adam Rose, sure. Bayley, no way. How do you screw up the best babyface you've had in years? By WWE being WWE, that's how What have they really done with Bayley that's so bad though? She came in, won the title in about 6 months, ended Charlotte's PPV streak and beat her numerous times, retained the title at WrestleMania, and held it for a few months (longer than Sasha ever had it and all of Charlotte's reigns but her first). She has been in the title picture ever since being called up and has wins over everyone she faced except for Alexa yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 Bayley needed to ve built up as an underdog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye12 Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 Bayley needed to ve built up as an underdog. Then she'd have to lose a bunch of matches. If that happened, folks still would have complained, said she was being buried, and probably whined about Vince and Kevin Dunn. I still remember when Charlotte came up for one shot and lost to Natalya on RAW. The internet was furious that she'd been wasted and buried, and she'd never recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 Bayley needed to ve built up as an underdog. In order to build someone as an underdog, you have to make people forget her NXT stuff to begin with because that cat is already out of the bag. If she was doing this against a Natalya or Noami or a Bella then it makes sense but she is doing to this people who have already played before and she has succeeded. This is one of the problems with having a developmental as a big brand is that it is hard to do the same thing twice. Especially when the main roster doesn't have the depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 It's not about having her win or lose matches as much as not scripting her like they've done in promos since she's come up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 Her new angle is that she's a virgin who never even kissed a guy apparently. That'll do wonder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 Well either her new angle is that she is a virgin who never even kissed a guy or that all of this happiness and goodness and Hug Life is some serious psychological disorder and that she is actually crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 The funny thing is that in the case of Bayley, I think they actually could have re-done a lot of stuff from NXT on the main roster. Not in terms of resetting her wrestling ability to zero and starting again, but certainly in terms of her character. Like, think back to early Bayley and what she was like. Young, happy, eager. She's a grown woman but with the heart and soul and spirit of a little girl, living her dream. One thing I noticed above all else with that Graves interview last week was how tired Bayley looked. Whether it's the writing or the road has owned her, or both, but she came off as really worn down and...not happy. I know she was supposed to be upset about losing the title, but like this was more than that. It was like she's not the same girl anymore. NXT Bayley was also, in a word, a gigantic mark. She'd run around like a little kid, hugging everyone in sight, geeking out when she met anyone remotely famous, just looking super happy to be there all the time. I still remember back in the beginning when she faced AJ when she was still champ, and she came up to her all like "I'm sorry to interrupt you, I was just following you from your car..." But like it wasn't even creepy, it was just pure and innocent and joyful. The shit they tried to pull with Bayley last week was just 100% creepy and weird. Look at all the stuff she was doing with Finn Balor on houseshows, where they'd do each others' entrances and be cute and adorable. I can't imagine main roster Bayley and main roster Finn even being in the same room on Raw. I can't imagine today's main roster Bayley having the mental energy to mark out over anyone. She lost a lot of that naivety by the end of her NXT run, sure. She got better in the ring and got a little wiser and a little more serious. She'd been turned on, betrayed by her friends, went through winning the title then losing it and not being able to regain it, she got injured, etc. She came out the end of all that having grown a lot but on the inside she was still that happy little kid. I think her being called up to the main roster should have been a kind of reset button for her character's...mood, I guess. Getting to Raw was fulfilling a lifelong dream for the girlhood dream poster child. She could leave behind all the baggage from NXT and be truly happy again, living her dream all over again. Plus, she's on Raw! If Bayley the ubermark was excited about meeting AJ Lee and shit in development, how much should she have freaked now she's suddenly surrounded by all the Raw Superstars?? Mick Foley personally recruited her! She should have hugged him for about 5 years straight! The God damn Hardy Boyz of her little teenage girl dreams just came back! She should STILL be marking out about that! (The only time they come close to capturing it is when her and Sasha do those buddy-buddy interviews arguing about who loves Shinsuke Nakamura the most and shit. But those are mostly on Youtube, not TV.) Instead, she came to Raw and got her will to live browbeaten out of her by Steph every week. She's less than a year into her Raw career and she's already giving world-weary, "I don't know if I can do this" character in crisis interviews (along with apparently a weird creepy character change to make her more "interesting"?). She's already won the title, broken Charlotte's streak and had her WM Moment. They blew through all that shit in like 3 months. There's no underdog story there, she's already done all the things that an underdog is supposed to work towards. Is it really going to feel the same next year when we're rooting Bayley on to overcome the odds and win her...third or fourth Raw women's championship? Because THIS time it's for real? But really my point is, she just doesn't appear to be happy anymore. How fucking hard is it to write BAYLEY as A HAPPY PERSON? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 There's no underdog story there, she's already done all the things that an underdog is supposed to work towards. Is it really going to feel the same next year when we're rooting Bayley on to overcome the odds and win her...third or fourth Raw women's championship? Because THIS time it's for real? Agree with everything in the post, but wanted to pull this because this is a fundamental issue with a lot of WWE's booking around titles. They hotshot a first title win and then try to regain the drama for the third win, when it's just not going to be there. To be fair, wrestling used to have the opposite problem of delaying the first win too long (see Luger, Lex), and I'm not sure which is worse. But it's distressing after they've done this so many times that they haven't been able to course correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Looks like we're getting a dump of MSG shows for the first time in years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 The Bruno-Hansen cage match is so great, just two guys clubbering each other until Bruno just beats his ass and walks out. I will say Stan teasing that he's going to climb out of the wobbly ass 70s WWWF cage was the scariest part of the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Looks like we're getting a dump of MSG shows for the first time in years Dates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 n/m, found them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 I love watching Bruno Sammartino wrestle. I realise he was considered a bad wrestler by many fans, but I absolutely do not care how many holds he can execute. He brings an energy in his matches that is ridiculous, the crowd keeps going absolutely wild, and his physical charisma is the greatest in wrestling history for me. I'm so glad he is on good terms with WWE and they are uploading many of his matches on the Network. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 If someone can't appreciate Bruno as a wrestler, that's their loss, because he was so great, in-ring and as a promo. I will always bang the drum for the man. Fuck, maybe I should just do an all-Bruno podcast. I guess I already kinda did with At the Garden. (sorry for not finishing his story for those who listened) Speaking of which, he's on the latest Jericho pod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Hoping these are the full shows... the 1 hour versions they were dropping at the beginning were a bit silly. Wonder if this was in any way inspired by how much has been going up on Youtube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 If someone can't appreciate Bruno as a wrestler, that's their loss, because he was so great, in-ring and as a promo. I will always bang the drum for the man. Fuck, maybe I should just do an all-Bruno podcast. I guess I already kinda did with At the Garden. (sorry for not finishing his story for those who listened) Speaking of which, he's on the latest Jericho podI'm about a third of the way through the Jericho pod and Christ, Bruno's mom was a fucking saint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Looks like we're getting two years of WWE ECW soon as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 I love watching Bruno Sammartino wrestle. I realise he was considered a bad wrestler by many fans, but I absolutely do not care how many holds he can execute. He brings an energy in his matches that is ridiculous, the crowd keeps going absolutely wild, and his physical charisma is the greatest in wrestling history for me. I'm so glad he is on good terms with WWE and they are uploading many of his matches on the Network. I don't see how hes regarded as a bad wrestler especially back then, he was great in the ring. Loved his matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickH Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 The one thing I like about Bruno is he doesn't kill his crowds. When you have a hot crowd the punch-kick punch-kick routine is perfect, that's what I like about Austin's matches, to get the crowd as hot as possible with basic offensive moves. Backlund basically did the opposite and killed the crowd with 10 minute headlocks and holds. The only matches we are really seeing of Bruno are the blowoff matches which are not "technical" at all, they are mostly cage matches so maybe that's why people think he's an average worker. I really want to see more matches against Ivan Koloff, Koloff seems to be his favorite opponent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willninho Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 As someone who's probably never seen a prime Bruno match what 2-3 would you recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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